A personal view regarding salat

[kgwithnob]

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg256826#msg256826

Peace,
Khalil

[Wakas]

peace,

but i am not sure yet that salat is standing bowing prostrating or just studing and reading the quran,  the verse that keeps telling me it's the prostrating physically is the one where the companions prayed with the prophet, a group than another

Read about 4:102 here:
See: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

Then for background information in general, see: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm

[captainneckbeard]

Check out the links on this thread:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.msg201534#msg201534

Thank you for the links! After reading many of the articles on this site, as well as browsing through the forums, one thing has been bothering me.

Allah says his Quran is complete and he has made it easy to believe. Also that he does not wish for his way to be difficult, yet no one seems to agree or are able to really explain what is expected from believers. Some feel that they pray twice, and only read the Quran, while others believe it is 3 times a day and that physical prostration is important.

I wonder how much confusion is caused because we have preconceived notions caused by generations of assumptions of what islamic prayer and daily obligations should be as taught by Sunnis.

If the Quran is so easy to understand, why isn't it easy to understand? Are we over-complicating it?

[Wakas]

peace cnb,

Many long term forum members have much more coherent views regarding salat, and in terms of practical differences, very little difference.

I wonder how much confusion is caused because we have preconceived notions caused by generations of assumptions of what islamic prayer and daily obligations should be as taught by Sunnis.

Probably a lot.

If the Quran is so easy to understand, why isn't it easy to understand? Are we over-complicating it?

Probably.

[ayman]

Peace CNB,

If the Quran is so easy to understand, why isn't it easy to understand? Are we over-complicating it?

This is a myth. I have not seen a single passage that says that the great reading is easy to understand. There is a passage saying that the great reading was made easy for rememberance. This is quite different from understanding.

Peace,

Ayman

[herbman]

Thank you for the links! After reading many of the articles on this site, as well as browsing through the forums, one thing has been bothering me.

Allah says his Quran is complete and he has made it easy to believe. Also that he does not wish for his way to be difficult, yet no one seems to agree or are able to really explain what is expected from believers. Some feel that they pray twice, and only read the Quran, while others believe it is 3 times a day and that physical prostration is important.

I wonder how much confusion is caused because we have preconceived notions caused by generations of assumptions of what islamic prayer and daily obligations should be as taught by Sunnis.

If the Quran is so easy to understand, why isn't it easy to understand? Are we over-complicating it?

Peace,

if you make the effort nothing is difficult...still people does not make the effort to understand it.

A simple example:

for me chineese language is difficult (nearly impossible) to understand yet 5 years old chineese childrens can speak and maybe read/write!

Peace

[captainneckbeard]

Peace CNB,

This is a myth. I have not seen a single passage that says that the great reading is easy to understand. There is a passage saying that the great reading was made easy for rememberance. This is quite different from understanding.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace Ayman,


In Surah 54. Al-Qamar (The Moon) (Yusuf Ali Translation)

It quotes the same passage 4 times:


17. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

22. But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

32. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

40. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

The context of these passages seem to be an admonition towards the Quraish and 4 examples were given of different peoples who were given warnings by God and rejected. So it seems it should still apply today, the Quran *Must be easy to understand AND remember if we are to understand the warnings and heed Gods commands.

I know no arabic but Al-Fatiha so I'm not in a place to perform exegesis on these 4 ayats, so could someone possibly help and explain? Can the phrase understand and remember be translated differently? 

[ayman]

Peace CNB,

In Surah 54. Al-Qamar (The Moon) (Yusuf Ali Translation)
It quotes the same passage 4 times:
17. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
22. But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
32. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
40. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
The context of these passages seem to be an admonition towards the Quraish and 4 examples were given of different peoples who were given warnings by God and rejected. So it seems it should still apply today, the Quran *Must be easy to understand AND remember if we are to understand the warnings and heed Gods commands.
I know no arabic but Al-Fatiha so I'm not in a place to perform exegesis on these 4 ayats, so could someone possibly help and explain? Can the phrase understand and remember be translated differently? 

The word "understand" doesn't occur in those passages. The exact word used is "rememberance".

Peace,

Ayman

[truthseeker171]

Salaam Ayman

I have nothing against physical prostration but then if you really believe that it is physical you have to do it to the chin and not the forehead. It is quite telling that the god uses this particular idiom (which fabricators of poetry later borrowed) since one cannot prostrate physically to the chin and the forehead at the same time. It is either or. So what the god is essentially telling us is that whether we interpret "sujud" physically or non physically, what sectarians are doing is not correct.

Verses 17:107 and 17:109 relate to falling prostrate to the chin by those who have been given knowledge before - probably the people of the book (i.e.Torah, Gospel), they are described as falling on their chins crying when verses of the Koran are recited to them.
These verses are not normative in the sense that all believers who prostrate during the -salaat- should fall on the chin. Since a special group of people is mentioned here - the people of the book. Furthermore, the recitation to them of verses of the Koran in this context is different from the regular daily -salaat-. Verse 17:108 relates that the people who hear the recitation, say: glory be to our Lord. Surely, the promise of our Lord has been fulfilled.
During regular -salaat- there is normally not such an audible reaction from the several participants.
Recitation of Koranic verses can also be done at another occasion than the regular -salaat-.

Verse 48:29 mentions the ones who are with the messenger who have the marks of prostration on their faces.
If this verse is read in a literal way, as is done with verses 17:107 and 17:109 - then one can conclude that the prostration is not to the chin within this context of prostration by the compagnions of the messenger. In general the beard could hinder the formation of marks on the face as a result of prostration to the chin, rather a prostration to the forehead would cause a (temporary) mark on the face.
Hereby is assumed that having a beard was a rather common feature amongst the male believers during the time-frame of the life of the last messenger-prophet.

Anyway in the Koran there is not found a normative ruling that the physical prostration of the believers during -salaat- should only be to the chin.

Truthseeker171

[Wakas]

re: SuJuD
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html