First of all I would like to clarify that my posts are addressed to all readers of this thread and I am not trying to engage anyone in a debate. I can only draw attention to the god's words. I cannot guide anyone. Only the god guides whom he wills and misguides whom he wills.
Quote from: maseehullahThen you are not a true believer, because the true believers are those who believe in the ENTIRE Quraan, they don't accept part of it and reject other part of it:
آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا
We believe in it, all of it is from our Lord [3:7]
But you fall in the category, regarding whom Allaah says:
أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ
Is it a part of the Book you believe in, and you disbelieve in a part? [2:85]
I believe in all the signs of the god including the ENTIRE ORIGINAL quran. The current written quran has many man made additions to it for example the names of the chapters, the verse stops, and diacritical marks and there are discrepancies in some words and letters among the 10 versions of the written quran in existence. I do not believe in any of the man made stuff. The original message however is 100 % preserved as promised by the god. The original message can easily be figured out by using mind and reason, the discrepancy/contradiction principle, cross referencing the signs, and comparing with the signs in the horizons and within ourselves until the truth is discerned per 41:53
For more details please see
http://free-minds.org/sites/default/files/WhichQuran.pdfQuote from: maseehullahThen logically, you must accept this fact that true believers are commanded not only to follow the Quraan, but to follow ALL Revelation from Allaah to His Messenger, as Allaah says:
الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الأُمِّيَّ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَكْتُوبًا عِندَهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالإِنْجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُم بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَاهُمْ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَآئِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَالأَغْلاَلَ الَّتِي كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ فَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ بِهِ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَاتَّبَعُواْ النُّورَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ مَعَهُ أُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ
Those who follow the Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet whom they found written about in the Torah and the Gospel, He commands them the Good, and forbids them the evil, and allows them the Pure things, and forbids them the impure, and he releases them from their heavy burdens, and from the fetters that were upon them. So those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful. [7:157]
The sign maseehullah quotes asks us to follow THE LIGHT sent down with the messenger and not ALL revelation from the god. THE LIGHT refers to something very specific which was sent down to the messenger and does not refer to ALL revelation from the god.
Let us see what the god sent down to the messenger:
We have sent it down an Arabic Quran, perhaps you will comprehend. (12:2)
And it was such that
We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and We dispatched in it the warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause them to remember. (20:113)
We have sent down to you the Quran in stages. (76:23)
Shall I seek other than God as a judge when
He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6:114 and numerous other signs mentioning the book sent down)
ALR,
a Book which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the light with the permission of their Lord, to the path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy. (14:1)
These signs make it clear that THE LIGHT sent down to the messenger is THE QURAAN which is also referred to as THE BOOK so that the messenger can bring people out of the darkness and into the light with the god's permission.
Hence maseehullah's claim of the "fact" that true believers are commanded not only to follow the Quraan, but to follow ALL revelation from the god to his messenger is unevidenced by 7:157 because as shown above, THE LIGHT refers to THE QURAAN and not to ALL revelation when cross referenced with other signs in the quraan.
Quote from: maseehullahThe Best of that which Allaah has sent down to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is indeed the Holy Quraan. No doubt about it.
Yet this same verse you quoted is another proof that that Allaah has sent down other revelation besides this Quraan, i.e. the Hadith Qudsi for example.
Sure but the god asks us to follow THE BEST of that which he sent down to the messenger and he clearly tells us that THE BEST is THE QURAAN.
THE BEST can only be one, not all.Quote from: maseehullahThe point is, Allaah has commanded us in numerous verses in the Quraan to follow everything which has been revealed to the Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم.
That would contradict with 39:55 in which the god wants us to follow THE BEST and not everything revealed to the messenger.
THE BEST can only be one, not all.Quote from: maseehullahYes, Allaah commands us to follow the best of that which has been sent down to him by his Lord, yet He never says that you will follow that exclusively, meaning, to the exclusion to all other revelation.
THE BEST contains ALL DETAILS and DETAILS OF EVERYTHING relevant to our guidance so following THE BEST would be ENOUGH as I have already shown from the quraan. Everything else would be redundant.
When an author says that a particular book is his best book and contains details of everything/all details then even if he has written 100 more books, that one best book would be enough to follow.
Quote from: maseehullahSo the logical fallacy on your part is to take something which is general command and turn it into an exclusive command.
If Allaah said to follow nothing but the Quraan, or follow nothing but the best of that which He sent down, you would be right, but when He said to follow the best of that which is sent down to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, it was not an exclusive command to follow only that.
It is not a general command because THE BEST was clearly defined as THE QURAAN, making it an exclusive command. THE BEST can only be one, not all. Read the relevant signs again:
And
follow THE BEST of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it. (39:55)
God has sent down THE BEST HADITH, a Book fully consistent within itself, repeating each statement in manifold forms. The skins of those who are concerned towards their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is the guidance of God;
He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whoever God misguides, then none can guide him. (39:23)
THE BEST can only be one, not all.
Readers are encouraged to pay attention to the last part of 39:23. No one can guide whom the god misguides, even though his signs are so clear!
Quote from: maseehullahOnce again you repeat the same logical fallacy, which is turning something general into exclusive.
"That you may warn WITH IT" is an exclusive command referring to the quraan exclusively.
Say: Which is the greatest testimony? Say: God is witness between me and you, and
He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods! Say: I do not bear witness! Say: He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you have set up! (6:19)
And thus
We have inspired to you an Arabic Quran, so that you may warn the capital town and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering that is inevitable. A group will be in the Paradise, and a group in Hell. (42:7)
QuoteThe Quraan is general and requires further explanation, that is why Allaah said that the duty of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم is to explain the Reminder which is sent down [16:44]
With proofs and scriptures. And
We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal/proclaim (litubayyina) to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think. (16:44)
Sectarians say that the word "litubayyina" in this sign means "to explain clearly", and thus Muhammad the messenger of the god explained the signs of the quraan and those explanations can be found only in the "hadith" attributed to him by others.
Sectarians have misinterpreted this word "litubayyina" in these verses. People who establish hadith and sunnah as another source of religious teachings besides the quraan, opted for the irrelevant meaning of the Arabic word "BYN" in these verses.
The word "'lituBaYyiNa" is a derivative of "BYN", which is a multiple-meaning word. It means:
1) To reveal what is concealed.
2) To explain what is vague.
The first meaning is the antonym of "hide (katama)", the second is the antonym of "make vague". The god orders Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to him personally. Indeed, this is the whole mission of the messengers (16:35). Prophets sometimes experience difficulty in proclaiming the revelation (33:37, 20:25-28). The verse 75:19 does not leave any room for an extra human explanation.
So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation.
Then it is for Us to explain it (bayanahu). (75:18-19)
And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation (tafseeran). (25:33)
Thus, the word "litubayyina" of 16:44 is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells us that the people who received the revelation should "reveal/proclaim the scripture to the people, and never conceal it (la taktumoonahu)."
3:187 And God took the covenant of those who were given the Book: You will
reveal/proclaim it (latubayyinunnahu) to the people and
not conceal it (la taktumoonahu). But they placed it behind their backs and purchased with it a cheap price. Miserable indeed is what they have purchased.
Readers can clearly see that "latubayyinunnahu" has been used in contrast with "taktumoonahu", so it can only mean "reveal/proclaim" as opposed to "hide/conceal"
Quote from: maseehullahThe Quraan also commands us to take whatever the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم allows us, and abstain from whatever he forbids.
This is a good example of maseehullah hiding part of the sign and revealing only a part to misguide others by taking things out of context:
Your god is One god. Those who do not believe in the Hereafter, their hearts are denying, and they are arrogant. Certainly,
God knows what they hide and what they reveal. He does not like the arrogant. (16:22-23)
The translation of the complete sign is as follows:
Whatever God bestowed upon His messenger from the people of the towns, then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And
you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he prohibits you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution. (59:7)
According to the context and the complete sign, "you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he prohibits you from taking" refers to "whatever God bestowed upon His messenger from the people of the towns" i.e. the spoils, and not to the god's revelations or guidance.
They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing. (2:9)
Quote from: maseehullahIn another thread I gave a perfect example of this principle and why it is necessary. In the Quraan, Allaah says He has only forbidden four things to eat: 1) dead meat, 2) blood, 3) pork, 4) any meat upon which other than Allaah's Name has been pronounced [2:173] Therefore, for those who follow only the Quraan as guidance, all other meat is permissible, including dog meat, cat meat, snake meat, eagle, hawk, etc.
Yet we know for a fact that these animals and their meat is just as impure as the pig, and that is why we know from the Hadeeth that the Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم prohibited the eating of any animal that has fangs, and any bird that has talons.
But you as a "Quraan-only" follower will have no problem eating the impure meat of dogs, cats, snakes, and eagles. You claim to follow the way of Abraham, but actually you are following the way of pagans, chinese, etc., who eat these impure meat. Even in the Torah, these impure meats are forbidden.
Maseehullah would rather believe a hadith falsely attributed to Muhammad the messenger and lie about the messenger than trust/believe the god's words in the quraan. The god's clear signs forbid
ONLY the four categories of food mentioned; then after that did the messenger dare to add to the god's fully detailed words detailing everything relevant to prohibited foods? Did he dare attribute something falsely to the god? Did he dare make something unlawful that the god had made lawful? Had he actually done so, he would have immediately been killed by the god:
And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
We would have seized him by the right.
Then, We would have severed his life-line.
None of you would be able to prevent it. (69:44-47)
Say: I do not find in what is inspired to me to be unlawful for any eater to eat except that it be already dead, or running blood, or the meat of pig - for it is foul - or what is a wickedness, dedicated to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. (6:145)
In 6:145 Muhammad himself is telling us the
ONLY forbidden categories of food
IN WHAT WAS INSPIRED TO HIM. This includes ALL inspiration to Muhammad from the god. So he was NEVER prohibited any other category of food. Then attributing false hadith to him claiming he also forbade other categories in addition to those mentioned in the quraan would be completely blasphemous, inventing lies about the god and his messenger, making unlawful that which has been made lawful, and disbelieving/rejecting the god's clear signs:
O you who believe,
do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors. (5:87)
As far as the Jews are concerned, following are the extra food categories that were forbidden to them:
And for those who are Jewish We have made unlawful all that have claws; and from the cattle and the sheep We made unlawful their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone.
That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful. (6:146)
This was as a punishment and with the revelation of the quraan those categories of food were made lawful again as evidenced by the word ONLY in the signs detailing the forbidden foods:
He has ONLY made unlawful for you that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated with to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful. (2:173)
He has ONLY forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to any other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
And
do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: This is lawful, and that is forbidden; that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed. A small enjoyment, and they will have a painful retribution.
And
for those who are Jewish, We forbade what We told to you before. And We did not wrong them, but they were wronging themselves. (16:115-118)
It appears that maseehullah is the one who believes in only a part of the book and disbelieves/rejects a part of it:
Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in part? The punishment for those among you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be delivered to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do. (2:85)
Quote from: maseehullahSo yes, the Quraan is indeed fully detailed...NOT because it contains all the instructions and regulations for our guidance...but because it tells us to obey the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم and to take whatever he allows us, and abstain from whatever he forbids us.
The Quraan is not fully detailed in the way you think, otherwise why would Allaah not mention in the Quraan that dog meat, cat meat, snake meat, etc., is forbidden, and why in the Quraan would He tell us to take everything the Messenger allows, and abstain from everything He forbids?
The god clearly tells us that the quraan is a guidance for the people, the believers, and the righteous (2:2, 2:185, 17:9, 41:44). Then the god tells us that the quraan is fully detailed and contains details of all things (6:114-115, 12:111, 16:89). Therefore the quraan is fully detailed and contains details of all things relevant to our guidance.
After this saying that the quraan is not fully detailed and does not contain details of all things relevant to our guidance would be rejecting/disbelieving/disobeying the god and thinking that the god forgot something out of his fully detailed book. Obviously, to such a person the god's words can never be enough:
Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Book that is being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe. (29:51)
What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
Or do you have a book which you study?
In it, you can find what you wish? (68:36-38)
He said: The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record.
My Lord does not err or forget. (20:52)
The quraan is THE BEST HADITH and contains details of all things relevant to our guidance. By definition the best can only be one. Following this BEST of what has been sent down to the messenger containing ALL details relevant to our guidance is ENOUGH to obey and follow the messenger of the god.Muhammad the messenger of the god was also asked to follow the creed of Abraham as shown in my previous post. Since we are supposed to follow Muhammad the messenger, and he was directly asked to follow the creed of Abraham, then in order to follow Muhammad the messenger of the god we also need the sabeel/hadith/sunnah of Abraham.
Where can we find the true 100% authentic sabeel/hadith/sunnah of Abraham so that we can follow Muhammad the messenger of the god?
