Usual arguments statements re hadith disbelief

[Wakas]

Wakas I loved the idea of looking mathematically at Bukhari and his hadith collecting. I ran aground when I tried to use it though because I was told that 16 years is how long it took Bukhari to write his book of authentic hadith, but that he collected the others over a greater length of time.

That is a common claim. Simply ask for a reference, and ask is this what is agreed upon?



When discussing with people, it is often helpful to narrow it down and stick to a few points first, see where that goes.

[Rana]

...
Check this out:
25:30 And the messenger said: My Lord, my people have deserted this Qur'an.
It is interesting to note that our Creator speaks here what the rasool will say in the future but the MOST interesting part is what the rasool says. Rasool will complain to Allah SWT that people have deserted this Qur'an.

Prophet/messenger Muhammad does not compalin about desertion of sunnah and hadeeth and there are muslims who do not follow sunnah and hadeeth, yes?

Us. ...

Brotherly advice:  
16:125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.

Peace.

Salaam Alen. From what you've written I can see it's a good idea to press onwards. I felt a bit despondent today but I am probably a bit impatient and I need to be sure that I am gentle and patient in the way I approach it.

ayah 25:30 is very interesting and your argument 

[Rana]

That is a common claim. Simply ask for a reference, and ask is this what is agreed upon?
When discussing with people, it is often helpful to narrow it down and stick to a few points first, see where that goes.

Salaam Wakas. Of course! I think that practice is needed as well as patience, lol. I'm sure I will get better at all this stuff with time (and naturally as my knowledge increases too). Yep, I need to ask for a reference 

[Leyna]

I was told that in Quran ''hikma'' refers to the prophets hadith, not hadith.

rana, we had a lengthy discussion about the meaning of hikma on here not too long ago, unfortunately I don't remember the name of the thread, only that it was started by The Reformer.

Fact is, the word hikma appears in the Qur'an many times, and there are various instances where it can NOT be translated as sunnah / hadith.


As for the rest of your post ? do not get frustrated about the argument that supposedly you misunderstand everything because you don't speak Arabic. That's nonsense, there is no consensus among native Arabic speakers about the meaning and interpretation of many words in the Qur'an. Also, it is a favourite argument of Sunnis that only people who don't know Arabic or Orientalists reject hadith. But this is simply not true, as you can see if you do a bit of research on the subject.


edit: This is the thread about hikma / sunnah>
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600457.0

[kgwithnob]

rana, we had a lengthy discussion about the meaning of hikma on here not too long ago, unfortunately I don't remember the name of the thread, only that it was started by The Reformer.

The highlighting above is from me.

Salaan,

The Qur?aan, The Forqaan, The Hadith, The Hikmah, The Kitaab, are all one and the same parts of one another. These terms are all confined within The Qur?aan itself. For example, the term Hikmah comes from the THREE-LETTER root word HA-KA-MA meaning ARBITRATION. In other words, meaning to render judgment according to the LAWS and COMMANDMENTS within The Qur?aan. So, when ALLAAH SWT Speaks of HIKMAH anywhere in The Qur?aan, He means the implementation of His laws and His commandments and the way they should be implemented. The point is that All the arbitrations MUST be according to word of GOD Almighty, whether in The Qur?aan, The Torah, and or The Injeel, but NOT any man-made source. See 5:44,45,47 out of numerous verses in which the derivatives and variations of this term i.e. HA-KA- MA, is used.

Peace,
Khalil