Author Topic: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?  (Read 11640 times)

Mazhar

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2010, 01:12:13 PM »
Quote
It is said that we must follow Allah and his messenger,


We do not "follow" [to come after something or somebody] Allah, we listen and wholeheartedly accept the word of Allah and His Messenger conveyed through His Book, Qur'aan; and thereby we follow the Messenger of Allah so long we follow/act in accordance with Qur'aan since he followed nothing but Qur'aan. Where is the impossibility? 

Zees

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2010, 12:30:15 PM »
Is 'Quran alone' even possible?  This implies everyone reads words on a page exactly the same way with the same meaning.  Perhaps Quran along is actually the practice of each individual constructing their own compilation of Hadith from their own interpretations of Quran.

Congratulations Tamara you have indeed stumbled upon the mother of all questions. The answer to this very question will indeed determine your ultimate understanding of what is truly the religious phenomenon.
There are two wings to success

Zidane

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 03:18:58 PM »
Greetings of peace and blessings,


People are commanded, throughout the Qur'aan, to FOLLOW Allah and Messenger. Is it possible?


Please be patient and sincere in your research - in the past I was understanding like you too.

It is possible.

Obey God and Obey the Messenger

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/17476247/How-to-Obey-God-and-the-Messenger-according-to-Quran)

After I verified that there is a God, and then I verified that this Quran is from God. Then, here's a summary of what I currently understand from the Quran about this issue:

- ?The Prophet? and ?Messenger? are two different words - not the same meaning. The Messenger is the state that the prophet is speaking God's message - perfectly - so God said Obey the Messenger. Now, see 66:1 - why does God use the word prophet there? Because that's what the prophet did, not the Messenger.

Now, the prophet is not here with us but the huge amount of contradicting "narrations" are ,

45:6  These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after God and His revelations do they believe?

Even if he was with us - we had to use reason to understand, verify and choose to follow him if what he says goes with reason/logic and the natural laws of God we see in Nature - not because people call him a prophet or Muhammad - we need to be sincere/truthful to ourselves and God - far from just blindly following whatever's written in a book with its title "hadith". Even for a book with its title "Quran" - we still have to use logic to verify/understand a/our current interpretation/understanding of sets of verses logically with reason to be sincere. It's like when you study math, science - you don't just blindly believe it because the title of the book - you have to verify/understand then choose to accept logically.

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for. - that is - be sincere in what you choose to do - not because we're inclined to it some way or got them from ancestors.

- Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is the same thing [Quran 4:80]. We can only know what God says from the Messenger and the Messenger can only speak what God says ([Quran 69:40-46], [Quran 4:150] ). - God preserved His message [Quran 15:9]. Now, what does He say about "hadith"? See 77:50, 7:185, 31:6, 45:6, 39:23, 52:34, 68:44 - see the arabic word "Hadith" in these verses. - The duty of the Messenger is ONLY to clearly deliver the Message [Quran 5:92], [Quran 16:81-82],
[Quran 29:18], [Quran 64:12], [Quran 24:54]. How to obey him? Obey what he ONLY does (only
delivers the Message). He warns with the Quran whomever it reaches (it reached us also) [Quran 6:19].
He reminds with the Quran to those who revere God?s promise [Quran 50:45].

- Therefore, the duty of explaining the Quran is NOT for the Messenger, it's for God. [Quran 75:19] Some people might come to say "but the prophet said..." this and that - Can you sincerely verify that he said it? This one said that one said... So it's true? I want to worship God, not a man. I respect good men, but not worship/obey them. Who do you want to Worship? God?
- Then you should obey Him.

How to Obey God?
- Obey what he tells you.

How does he tell you?
- Through his Messenger.

Therefore, 4:80Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not
sent you as a guardian over them.

Therefore, "Obey God and obey the Messenger" = Obey God through his Messenger's Message.
NOT "Obey God and obey the hadith books about prophet Muhammad".


By the way, there's so much you can find in the hadith books, everything you might want, probably the
book referred here:
(See 6:114, also.)


68:36What is wrong with you, how do you judge?

68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?

68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?


The Quran is complete/fully detailed. But for some (many), it doesn't have what they like to see in it, so they go and see the Hadith books, they'll find just about anything they want - even though contradicting - they choose what they wish.

May God guide & forgive.

May God Guide

FAR

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 04:22:06 PM »
Is 'Quran alone' even possible?  This implies everyone reads words on a page exactly the same way with the same meaning.  Perhaps Quran along is actually the practice of each individual constructing their own compilation of Hadith from their own interpretations of Quran.

The quran alone concept fails the quran because of quran 6:159, 42:38.  Let alone the following verses: http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/religion-science-reason-compatible.htm

Own compilation of hadith? Own compilation of hearsay? I think we enough news reporters in this forum who basically fail quran 49:6. Of course, it's hard to submit... easy to believe but quran 49:13 says what it says.
Masalam

P.S. I am a muslim. Do you love the quran?

http://www.youtube.com/user/faro0485?feature=mhum#g/f

Wakas

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 03:03:54 AM »
peace Zidane, all,

I find the following analogy very helpful:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598901.0


Say "Indeed, I do not possess for you harm nor right-guidance."
[72:21]
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Emil

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 04:25:31 AM »

Hello

If Quran alone=God alone, then I am a Quaranist
If Quran alone=Only the book of Quran, then I am not a Quaranist. We need to find inspiration and guidance other than our own personal experiences. We cannot solely rely on our own mind. In my opinion, the traditionalists take the easy way out and use hadith. That way they don't need to find the deeper meaning and they do not need to adapt to the evolution of mankind. They do not need to find a way how to make Islam really compatible with christianity or judaism or even buddhism.
I want to find inspiration from every aspect of life, I want to sit down with a catholic priest and talk about how he understands things. I want to evolve, I want to move forward, not be stuck in a society 1200 years old.

BTW I found a description while surfing of what Quran alone means; "The Koranist believe only the Koran should speak for Islam." Found it on some iranian website....I kinda like it...

Emil

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 04:58:22 AM »
AND when I kept reading on the iranian website I realize the person who came up with the definition of what is a koranist has a link to FM in his/her thread.......Whoever you are, my hat off to to you

Kamzo19

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 05:17:14 AM »
Peace to all,

Personally, I did reflect with a brother in Paris on this question and I reached the conclusion I'm going to share with you:

People of the Qur'an need an accepted and recognized authority who speaks in the name of God. One to whom God brings the correct understanding in what we are divided ( different understandings,...).

At the time of prophet Muhammad, they had their messenger. Today, I think we need this autority. Otherwise, each one will follow his own understanding. Tamara raised "THE" question, and she did well.


Wakas

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 06:09:33 AM »
peace Kamzo,

People of the Qur'an need an accepted and recognized authority who speaks in the name of God. One to whom God brings the correct understanding in what we are divided ( different understandings,...).

At the time of prophet Muhammad, they had their messenger. Today, I think we need this autority. Otherwise, each one will follow his own understanding. Tamara raised "THE" question, and she did well.

Tamara and others may have raised this question, but it seems to suffer from a fatal flaw, i.e. what it implies that is needed has no basis in The Quran.

Unless it can be proven otherwise? If so, please share.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Ayisha

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Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 06:19:52 AM »
Peace to all,

Personally, I did reflect with a brother in Paris on this question and I reached the conclusion I'm going to share with you:

People of the Qur'an need an accepted and recognized authority who speaks in the name of God. One to whom God brings the correct understanding in what we are divided ( different understandings,...).

At the time of prophet Muhammad, they had their messenger. Today, I think we need this autority. Otherwise, each one will follow his own understanding. Tamara raised "THE" question, and she did well.


Well we could have Osama bin Laden as 'authority' as some do, or whoever the latest Taliban leader is, or the Ayatollah or leaders of other 'muslim' countries, or Bukhari hadith, but who decides whether God has given them the correct understanding? Seems to imply we still need yet another 'messenger' if we have the book and still fail to be guided by it.
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.