Author Topic: Astrology  (Read 10155 times)

Student of Allah

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2012, 05:53:00 PM »
Only the position of the celestial bodies is not arbitrary at all!

Don't you read the Qur'an @SOA?

It mentions sun and moon etc going its specified and orderly manner etc etc

Shalom Aleikhem,

No I have never come across the thing called Qur'an. How can I possibly read something like that. What is it about ?  ;D

Jokes aside, by arbitrary( in context), what I am implying is that "having no meaningful/demonstrable link with". Let me give you an example to clarify: Someone was taking a dump in the toilet in Australia when you were born. This arbitrary relationship between your birth and that person taking a dump can not possibly impact your overall personality. However, the fact remains that while taking a dump is not an arbitrary action by itself, you relating it to your personality allows me to call it that.

Is that clear enough ? :)

Peace be with you
---------------------- Student of Allah

GODsubmitter

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2012, 03:28:26 AM »
Then, it is a problem of your English language, you should have said arbitrary connection between the planets and events, and not arbitrary position of the planets.

Anyway I understood you even the first time, so no need to bring such a vulgar example of a bad taste, or is it that you are thinking about dumping so often that it is the first thing that comes to your mind?

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AK85

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2012, 12:56:35 PM »
Then, it is a problem of your English language, you should have said arbitrary connection between the planets and events, and not arbitrary position of the planets.

Anyway I understood you even the first time, so no need to bring such a vulgar example of a bad taste, or is it that you are thinking about dumping so often that it is the first thing that comes to your mind?

Yeah I think the vulgar example was his way of showing his contempt for my belief in this. I personally don't care though, I mean I understand why some people find astrology to be bogus, but if I can sometimes guess certain signs correctly, certain alignments correctly, then I have to call a spade a spade right?

Besides it doesn't really bother me or get me fuming when people disagree, this is like someone insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 I'm just like "Oh, ok." and go on with my day.
Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.


We here have different views from salaat, to haj, to qibla to shirk to many fiqh issues. But there is something that binds us all, is we take our deen from the Quran and we recognize its authority over anything else. - BigMo

Student of Allah

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2012, 06:09:18 PM »
Shalom Aleikhem,

Then, it is a problem of your English language, you should have said arbitrary connection between the planets and events, and not arbitrary position of the planets.

Anyway I understood you even the first time, so no need to bring such a vulgar example of a bad taste, or is it that you are thinking about dumping so often that it is the first thing that comes to your mind?

It can very well be the case that my wording led to a possible misinterpretation.

I did not use the example of "a person using the toilet" to project any sort of hatred. I took it to that extreme knowingly for the readers to realize that one may very well connect dots in ways that do not sound so seductive, yet following the same train of thought....everything is connected. :)

Since I explained why I used such example, answering your questions based on argumentum ad hominem is redundant at this point. :)

May peace be always with you

-------------------------------------- Student of Allah

Student of Allah

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2012, 06:20:27 PM »
Shalom Aleikhem,

Yeah I think the vulgar example was his way of showing his contempt for my belief in this. I personally don't care though, I mean I understand why some people find astrology to be bogus, but if I can sometimes guess certain signs correctly, certain alignments correctly, then I have to call a spade a spade right?

Besides it doesn't really bother me or get me fuming when people disagree, this is like someone insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 I'm just like "Oh, ok." and go on with my day.

Since I am not dead yet, you could probably ask me why I resorted to the specific example ...instead of speculating on it and explaining it away as "contempt for your belief".

You are entitled to your beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I am not here to attack your belief. However, it is the duty of every soul seeking the truth to be sincere about it. I can not cover up the truth for pleasing anyone. If you think that there is truth to "Astrology" which I do not agree with, we both should have the right to present our case.

Having said that, I would like it very much if you can point out a document/place/source from where I can learn the principles of Astrology that you think is "True". Once we have that, we can be objective in our quest for the truth. We can verify,test, confirm the claims.

But thats if you agree to do that.


Peace
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AK85

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2012, 06:29:02 PM »
No I understand, and I don't think anyone should ever censor themselves from saying what they really think on a subject but I just don't feel the need to address your inquiry because I believe it and that's enough for me, and am I interested only in discussing with those who perhaps have similar beliefs and want to discuss them as well.

I stumbled upon natal charts a while back and decided to make some for people I know, and the descriptions I find we're very accurate in describing the people I know, and that's why I choose to believe in natal charts accurately describing people's personalities.

This is the site I use: www.alabe.com/freechart

To address those who have made one for themselves and feel it doesn't describe them, we don't always have accurate perceptions of ourself. A rude person may feel they are very polite while a very polite person may worry they are not polite enough. Perhaps the descriptions are unsettling, and strong emotional aversions or pure stubbornness prevents one from accepting they are true.
Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.


We here have different views from salaat, to haj, to qibla to shirk to many fiqh issues. But there is something that binds us all, is we take our deen from the Quran and we recognize its authority over anything else. - BigMo

GODsubmitter

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2012, 06:32:32 PM »
Having said that, I would like it very much if you can point out a document/place/source from where I can learn the principles of Astrology that you think is "True". Once we have that, we can be objective in our quest for the truth. We can verify,test, confirm the claims.

That is the problem. We do not have those documents and sources of true astrology any more.
The modern astrology does have some hints of truth and sometimes it gives amazingly correct information.

But the true astrology is lost, or maybe in possession of some wise knowledgeable people who do not go public, and are not vain enough to go public about it.
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

Student of Allah

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2012, 08:48:09 PM »
That is the problem. We do not have those documents and sources of true astrology any more.
The modern astrology does have some hints of truth and sometimes it gives amazingly correct information.

But the true astrology is lost, or maybe in possession of some wise knowledgeable people who do not go public, and are not vain enough to go public about it.

Shalom Aleikhem,

Well, then I am afraid we do not have enough information to put astrology on trial. :( Too bad. But it makes me wonder why then anyone would carry it's flag ? Probably a personal and subjective issue.

Ohh... by the way, the thinking minds...the people that studied the heavens back then, they did not disappear. They branched into Astrology and Astronomy as far as I can tell. Scientific minds moved on with new discoveries and observations. I appreciate their efforts, my utmost respect for the minds that worked towards developing and enhancing our knowledge.


Peace
----------- Student of Allah

Student of Allah

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2012, 09:04:01 PM »
Shalom Aleikhem,

No I understand, and I don't think anyone should ever censor themselves from saying what they really think on a subject but I just don't feel the need to address your inquiry because I believe it and that's enough for me, and am I interested only in discussing with those who perhaps have similar beliefs and want to discuss them as well.

I appreciate your tolerance of freedom of expression. If you don't feel like addressing it to people like me "because its enough for you", then as I said before, its a subjective belief. Its ok with me though. You are "only interested" to discuss when others share your "subjective belief", that I do not find to be the attitude of someone who can stand up to their claims. But I could be wrong, you might have the truth and just for the sake of it you refuse to discuss it with ones that do not already have a biased disposition towards your claim.

I stumbled upon natal charts a while back and decided to make some for people I know, and the descriptions I find we're very accurate in describing the people I know, and that's why I choose to believe in natal charts accurately describing people's personalities.

This is the site I use: www.alabe.com/freechart

Thanks for this info. :)

To address those who have made one for themselves and feel it doesn't describe them, we don't always have accurate perceptions of ourself. A rude person may feel they are very polite while a very polite person may worry they are not polite enough. Perhaps the descriptions are unsettling, and strong emotional aversions or pure stubbornness prevents one from accepting they are true.

The only problem with what you just said is that it can be applied to every deliberate or unintended superstitious dogma. Let me demonstrate it by changing the beginning of your quote and promoting my own such system (similar to Astrology). Lets assume that I came up to you claiming that my method can rival Astrology. I give you a reading:

My Reading: You are arrogant. You love your friends. You are not compassionate. You have a natural inclination towards causing injustice. However, your academic potentials are far above people like Stephen Hawking.

Your Response: That is not true and does not reflect my personality.

My response ( using your quote adapting only the beginning part to fit ):

"To address those who have used my method on themselves and feel it doesn't describe them, we don't always have accurate perceptions of ourself. A rude person may feel they are very polite while a very polite person may worry they are not polite enough. Perhaps the descriptions are unsettling, and strong emotional aversions or pure stubbornness prevents one from accepting they are true."


I hope you can see the problem.

Peace
---------- Student of Allah

mmkhan

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Re: Astrology
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2012, 07:53:05 AM »

This is the site I use: www.alabe.com/freechart


Salaam,

Thanks for the link. I tried and here it is everything about me...

Rising Sign   is in   03 Degrees   Sagittarius
You are known for being open, frank, outgoing and honest. At times, though, you are also blunt and quite indiscreet. Others have to learn not to take everything you say personally, because you usually do not mean any harm. You appreciate living your life in a straightforward and simple manner -- you dislike social niceties and consider them to be hindrances to real communication. You have lots and lots of energy and tend to become quite restless if you feel confined. You demand the freedom to do as you choose -- you must be self- directed or you feel trapped and anxious. With your abundant energy, you enjoy being outdoors, and you should be attracted to physical exercise or to those forms of sport which can help you burn off some of that excess energy. Very gregarious, you love to socialize -- your innate enthusiasm livens up any gathering.

Sun is in   10 Degrees   Virgo.
Extremely careful and cautious by nature, you value neatness and order above all else. You rigorously practice very high standards of living and conduct and you demand the same of everyone with whom you come into contact. At times, you are so supercritical that you are merely nit-picky. You are very good at practical skills and quite handy with tools of all kinds. You are also greatly concerned with hygiene, cleanliness and personal health problems. Very likely your health is much better than you think it is -- don't worry so much! Extremely methodical and analytical, you are a perfectionist -- this makes you the perfect person to carry out highly detailed, precise operations. But, at times, you pay so much attention to details that you lose sight of the larger issues.

Moon is in   05 Degrees   Gemini.
Restless in the extreme, you are easily bored because of your short attention span. Your emotions change rapidly and you love to talk about your feelings. Generally, you have good judgment -- your intellect controls your emotions and you do not overreact emotionally to things. A good jack-of-all-trades, you have many- sided interests and enjoy reasoning things through. With your mental agility and need for physical mobility, you are attracted to traveling and learning about other peoples and cultures. You have vivid powers of emotional self-expression - - you can be a nonstop talker. You love to share your ideas with anyone who will listen.

Mercury is in   07 Degrees   Libra.
You are known for not jumping to conclusions about things. You tend to weigh all possible choices very carefully before making a decision. When in the slightest amount of doubt, you will compromise rather than ruffle any feathers. You are a true raconteur of culture and taste -- your ideas and opinions are neat, elegant and refined. A born diplomat, you dislike discord so much that you will go out of your way to make others feel comfortable and at ease. You speak softly and pleasantly.

Venus is in   06 Degrees   Leo.
You have a striking, regal appearance and demeanor that attracts others to you. Your friendship is highly sought and you tend to take friendships quite seriously -- you remain loyal and true to those to whom you are attached. For you, love is mixed with pride and respect. Relationships are over when you lose respect for your partner. Be careful of a tendency to relate only to those who make you look good -- the powerful, important and influential. This can lead to arrogance and selfishness, and neither of these qualities becomes you.

Mars is in   19 Degrees   Sagittarius.
Your every action is motivated by high moral standards and ideals. You will work very hard to improve the lot of the world at large, but you demand action about it -- you do not like to just sit around and talk about doing it in an abstract manner. You like to be where the real action is. You resist mightily any attempts to limit your freedom and you will assist anyone who feels put down and restricted. You are extremely restless by nature -- physical exercise is very important to you if you would maintain your health.

Jupiter is in   08 Degrees   Libra.
You are generally good at balancing opinions and judging issues, but you tend to be indecisive when it comes to making up your own mind. You are objective and quite concerned with fair play and justice. But, when it comes to yourself, you are so aware that whatever you do might upset the apple cart that you often choose to compromise rather than do anything that might make you lonely or vulnerable. Relationships are very important to you -- you learn about yourself and grow through observing yourself interacting with others. Your aesthetic tastes are refined, but expansive and expensive.

Saturn is in   08 Degrees   Taurus.
Complete freedom of choice makes you ill at ease. You must have a firm, ordered, secure foundation in your life in order to feel comfortable. You do not adapt easily and tend to fear the new and untried. You constantly fear that you do not have enough (love, property, material things, etc.) and this makes you tend toward being selfish, withdrawn and stingy. If you try to surround yourself with supportive people in your environment, you will become more emotionally self-supporting.

Uranus is in   02 Degrees   Libra.
You, as well as your entire peer group, have a very free, unstable and unconventional approach to relationships and emotional commitments. You will be attracted to experiments in marriage and shared lifestyles. Personal freedom is more important to you than entangling emotional bonds. In the realm of art and aesthetics, you are attracted to the bizarre, shocking and unusual.

Neptune is in   26 Degrees   Scorpio.
You, and your entire generation, are extremely interested in anything deep and mysterious. You will explore and idealize the benefits that can accrue from the study of the occult, healing and psychology. You are willing to experiment with substances like drugs in order to push your understanding of your inner being to the extreme.

Pluto is in   24 Degrees   Virgo.
For your entire generation, this will be a time when profound changes in society's attitude toward work, duty and responsibility will be initiated. Radical changes in attitudes toward personal health and general nutrition will be promulgated and gain wide acceptance and practice.

N. Node is in   21 Degrees   Pisces.
You're attracted to others who need your assistance. You seem to go out of your way to form relationships with those who are weak, sick, injured, addicted or troubled in some way or other. At your best you can indeed provide the relief that others need. But at times you can be victimized by those who would prey on your good nature and take advantage of you. This can lead to all sorts of negative situations -- make sure that those you assist are truly worthy of your time, energy and commitment. A little enlightened self-protectiveness on your part can make your life work much, much smoother!



How do they know this much about me?  :hmm  Does this mean I am started believing in this? :&

Lets see...
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51