shahr ramadan - 3 or 10 days of abstention

[truthseeker171]

The timing of fasting the full moon of ramadan.
If the full moon is witnessed/seen before the koranic night - then one has the night to eat and drink as preparation for the fast that begins just before -fadjr-.
If the full moon is witnessed during the night, the fast does not start next daytime, then the next night is the night of the preparation of the fast.
According to verse 2:184 the plural of more than two regarding the number of days - requires a fasting of three days at least. The wording ma'dootan refers to possibly three days. The full moon of verse 2:185 refers to three days.

One can find out via a mooncalendar what is the day of the most full moon and see that the day before and after have at least 98% coverage.
That is enough to witness the moon as full - it is a basic, efficient tool - not high-tech.

The moment of sunset seems not to be the start of the koranic night.
Verse 20:130 indicates that the sunset is not a part of the night.
Rather the moment of the gradual darkening of the sky - verse 36:37, when the first planets/stars can be seen - verse 6:76, is the start of the night.
In this case the moment of witnessing the full moon happens in general before the actual koranic night of the fast.
The moment of sunset and the rise of the full moon are related to another.
The actual abstinence starts at the beginning of the moment of -fajr-.


Truthseeker

Disclaimer: the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 17:36.

[afridi220]

it is a whole month ,the lunar cycle,clear to be counted days of 28 give or take for who ever does not see the new moon phase.
all is clear no science for us but it is good to think.give in to what is simple ,i know the blame goes on who ever tried to give us false interpretaions so that now we need to really think hard to find out.
it is all laid simple dont make it hard on your self.it is all clear.

Salam,
Why hajj is for three days and fasting for whole month while same wording -ma'dootan is used in both verses ??

[truthseeker171]

time of the year - bump


Truthseeker


Disclaimer: the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 17:36.

[herbman]

Peace Ayman, all,

First of all happy Ramadan, I guess you are fasting the next 10 days.

I don't know if anyone raised this issue before, if yes you are welcomed to point me the link, otherwise please can you answer this question:

in verse 2:197

الْحَجُّ أَشْهُرٌ مَعْلُومَاتٌ ۚ فَمَنْ فَرَضَ فِيهِنَّ الْحَجَّ فَلَا رَفَثَ وَلَا فُسُوقَ وَلَا جِدَالَ فِي الْحَجِّ ۗ وَمَا تَفْعَلُوا مِنْ خَيْرٍ يَعْلَمْهُ اللَّهُ ۗ وَتَزَوَّدُوا فَإِنَّ خَيْرَ الزَّادِ التَّقْوَىٰ ۚ وَاتَّقُونِ يَا أُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ

yusuf ali:

For Hajj are the ASHUHUR well known. If anyone undertakes that duty therein let there be no obscenity nor wickedness nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (with you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, O ye that are wise.!

My question:

does the Hajj occur during full moons?

This leads me to a very simple conclusion, if Hajj can occur during full moons, the "count" can only be 3 days as per 2:196!!!

Thanks and Peace

[youssef4342]

Peace be with you guys as well,
from my current understanding, ramadan would be a lunar month as per 2:185

morover, my 2 cents on h Hajj would be that it would be during months, not just 3 days, to allow the actual traveling from places far away 22:27

[dawngorgeous]

Peace,

I feel the Hajj is a local event.  It would not make sense for everyone to travel to such a place as Makkah for three days.  As it is at the moment it is an extremely bad health hazard.  Thus, I imagine it would be an event in each town or county in a country.

Dawn.

[ayman]

Peace Herbman,

First of all happy Ramadan, I guess you are fasting the next 10 days.
I don't know if anyone raised this issue before, if yes you are welcomed to point me the link, otherwise please can you answer this question:
in verse 2:197
الْحَجُّ أَشْهُرٌ مَعْلُومَاتٌ ۚ فَمَنْ فَرَضَ فِيهِنَّ الْحَجَّ فَلَا رَفَثَ وَلَا فُسُوقَ وَلَا جِدَالَ فِي الْحَجِّ ۗ وَمَا تَفْعَلُوا مِنْ خَيْرٍ يَعْلَمْهُ اللَّهُ ۗ وَتَزَوَّدُوا فَإِنَّ خَيْرَ الزَّادِ التَّقْوَىٰ ۚ وَاتَّقُونِ يَا أُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ
yusuf ali:
For Hajj are the ASHUHUR well known. If anyone undertakes that duty therein let there be no obscenity nor wickedness nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (with you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, O ye that are wise.!
My question:
does the Hajj occur during full moons?
This leads me to a very simple conclusion, if Hajj can occur during full moons, the "count" can only be 3 days as per 2:196!!!
Thanks and Peace

The harvest feast is marked by the three full-moons after the scorching full-moon. So people can have 3 harvest feasts per harvest season. The minimum time for the harvest feast is 3 days and the maximum is 10 days. In 2:196 we hear of 3 days during the feast and 7 days after they return home with the condition that this is for those whose family is not in the inviolable institution of obedience. So for those whose family is in the inviolable institution of obedience the full 10 days would be in the feast.

Peace,

Ayman

[herbman]

Peace Herbman,

The harvest feast is marked by the three full-moons after the scorching full-moon. So people can have 3 harvest feasts per harvest season. The minimum time for the harvest feast is 3 days and the maximum is 10 days. In 2:196 we hear of 3 days during the feast and 7 days after they return home with the condition that this is for those whose family is not in the inviolable institution of obedience. So for those whose family is in the inviolable institution of obedience the full 10 days would be in the feast.

Peace,

Ayman

Peace,

thanks for your reply.

Let's be clear for the audience and myself:

When does Hajj start exactly? During, or just after the full moon?

my personnal understanding is during the full moon (3 days) and 7 days after for people who's familly do not belong to the institution!

thanks

[Bender]

Peace,

thanks for your reply.

Let's be clear for the audience and myself:

When does Hajj start exactly? During, or just after the full moon?

my personnal understanding is during the full moon (3 days) and 7 days after for people who's familly do not belong to the institution!

thanks

Salaam brother,

I don't understand this full moon thing. Can anyone please give me an ayaat (or more) where it's talking about a full moon.

Thank you,
Bender

[herbman]

Salaam brother,

I don't understand this full moon thing. Can anyone please give me an ayaat (or more) where it's talking about a full moon.

Thank you,
Bender

Salam, Peace,

read this http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0 from Dr Ayman

Peace