Author Topic: Birds Throwing Stones  (Read 15400 times)

jawad_mugniya

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2010, 03:53:30 PM »
this is a fake history ..first of all there was no one called Yazid " يزيد بن معاوية" and he never killed "الحسن" and the events between the death of "الحسن" and this fake man are not related at all .

Are you a follower of Dr. Shabbir Ahmed one who is claiming that Karbala never happened  ?

I asked him two questions but he never answered me :

Quote
First question - Who is the author of the book Kitab Dalail-e-Nabawwut : Abdul Jabbar Fatimi or Abdul Jabbar Qaramati ?
 
Second question - Can you provide me the photographs of the above mentionned book as you say in your forum "I am extremely grateful to my loyal readers who, at the risk of life and imprisonment, have been mailing me these photographed excerpts for a few years.
" ?

Ok if you claim that all thing i posted is rubbish then give me the name of your sources ie. name of books etc.

kn

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2010, 09:49:26 PM »

Irrespective of the fact, whether this event happened or not, it does not seem that this story is the topic in this Surah. The folowoing rendition at www.servantofthelight.com, seem to make a lot of sense, and seem linguistically correct. Here is the reproduction for your reference.


(This is the 105th chapter with 5 short verses.

It is traditionally translated, or more accurately interpreted, with reference to, and the support of, historical event; events that took place before the time of the Rasul Mohammed. It has been translated as a catastrophe upon an army and their elephants, during the time of an invasion to the place of worship, which was not only very dear to the people there, but was a centre of trade for the entire area, and hence a source of income to the pagan Bedouins. It is described, traditionally, that since it is the House of Allah build by Prophet Abraham and his son, it was hence protected by Allah himself. A closer look at the word, "Feel" shows that this word was not the classical Arabic word for elephants at that time, but was a Persian word. The word "Feel" in classical Arabic actually reflected those people who were cowardly, timid, weak in judgement and erring in clear perception. With this understanding, it is rather difficult to assign the classical rendition of the destruction of the army of the elephants, as the real plausible rendition, with regard to the spirit of this very profound Surah.

This we feel, based on our understanding of the great work of grammar and lexicon, is rather reflective of the creation of the human as a superior creation among all the other creations, akin to the making of a stallion in the entire herd of creations. It is then stated that by forgetting this very basic fact, humans tend to act like lower creations and put themselves in a state of error, so become easily defeated, and hence suffer collective destruction, rather than pulling out of this sickness. They are then invited to hasten to change the course of their flight, from a deceitful and wrong direction, to a course that is rightfully directed, and protect themselves from irreparable damage.)

Surah 105:1                                  أَلَمْ تَرَ كَيْفَ فَعَلَ رَبُّكَ بِأَصْحَابِ

الْفِيلِ

Truthfully, your nurturer, fosterer and nourisher has brought you forth to excel like a stallion in a herd, to source all solutions with the utmost mental and physical effort. Why would you abstain from it, but through timidity and cowardice? Being nothing other than followers, too weak in judgement and erring in clear perception.

Surah 105:2                                       أَلَمْ يَجْعَلْ كَيْدَهُمْ فِي تَضْلِيلٍ

Truthfully you are created without any similar and for a special purpose. Why do you want to circumvent this purpose, by acting deceitfully and wickedly and be amongst those; who will not desist from error, confusion and perplexity?

Surah 105:3                                     وَأَرْسَلَ عَلَيْهِمْ طَيْرًا أَبَابِيلَ

Here is a call upon you to pull gently out of this sickness. You hasten to take flight and prepare to change the course that is rightly directed.

Surah 105:4                                     تَرْمِيهِم بِحِجَارَةٍ مِّن سِجِّيلٍ

Use others for assistance for the greatest effort in; what is prohibited and secure from being infringed, breached, or broken? Do not be like a sovereign nation -

Surah 105:5                                        فَجَعَلَهُمْ كَعَصْفٍ مَّأْكُولٍ

- whom happens to neglect purpose and are doubtful of their creation. By suffering this sickness so decline quickly; hence becoming easily defeated.


Peace

Mazhar

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2010, 03:28:57 AM »
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This we feel, based on our understanding of the great work of grammar and lexicon, is rather reflective of the creation of the human as a superior creation among all the other creations, akin to the making of a stallion in the entire herd of creations.

This has been told in plain and straight words

And indeed We have hnoured and dignified the posterity of Adam and We have made them ride in the Earth and the Water Reservoir;

http://haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/017.E%20Al%20Israa.htm

herbman

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2010, 04:04:53 AM »
Peace,

I am more traditionalist then and I think this story has more to do with historical events, one of the hypothesis I found is a volcan eruption that killed the army of the elefant which did not occur in Mecca but more in North West Arabia.
This is supported by the 2 following points:
1- To cross the desert to get to Mecca with an elefant is not easy thing to do, knowing the quantity of water needed for an elefant to survive in the desert! (sunni version)
2- Scientific research can show that an eruption occured in North West Arabia in 640AD and killed many people and it is on the road to Sirya.
3- No way to proof presence of elefant in Yemen (sunni version)

please see http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0301-02=&volpage=photos&photo=104063

an other hypothesis is the Jordan river battle between the arabs and the Byzantins (the people of the elefant) where Heraclius lost the battle.

About the Elefant, bear in mind it is singular, and could also be the symbol of an army or tribe!!!!

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Is it possible that "People of the elephant" is the people who were using an elephant as symbol e.g. people of Petra!!!

please see new findings:

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/Petra/elephant.html



Regards

simple

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2010, 05:28:08 AM »
 :peace:

I remember my Mum used to say the Ababeel-birds that fly around the kaaba do twaaf, you see them flying around the kaaba and they never shit on the holy precints i used to wonder how can animals know such stuff!!!

then when i went on Hajj with my mum i saw so many bird dropping in the verandas surrounding the kaaba- everything was self evident its all in the mind.

I was also told the zam zam is holy water that cures many a disease, until i saw a water container in the veranda- the lid had come off-full off green stuff fungi and realised why so many people get the cough and the belly aches.

when will they stop brain washing children into believing nonsensical things.

Thank God for everything he did for me.

 :peace:

Mazhar

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2010, 05:58:42 AM »
Quote
I was also told the zam zam is holy water that cures many a disease, until i saw a water container in the veranda- the lid had come off-full off green stuff fungi and realised why so many people get the cough and the belly aches.


It is blatent lie. Fungi and smell/odor does not develop in Zam Zam water. I have one container of Zam Zam kept by me since 1991, now left about half of the container, it is fresh till today. I kept it for physical verification. First read scientific reports about the contents of Zam Zam, then talk and spread rubbish opinions. You might not know even peculiarity of that well. Water does not come from the sides but gushes from the bed.

jawad_mugniya

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2010, 06:23:59 AM »

It is blatent lie. Fungi and smell/odor does not develop in Zam Zam water. I have one container of Zam Zam kept by me since 1991, now left about half of the container, it is fresh till today. I kept it for physical verification. First read scientific reports about the contents of Zam Zam, then talk and spread rubbish opinions. You might not know even peculiarity of that well. Water does not come from the sides but gushes from the bed.

Pictures of your container please !  :whatever:

simple

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2010, 07:41:18 AM »

It is blatent lie. Fungi and smell/odor does not develop in Zam Zam water. I have one container of Zam Zam kept by me since 1991, now left about half of the container, it is fresh till today. I kept it for physical verification. First read scientific reports about the contents of Zam Zam, then talk and spread rubbish opinions. You might not know even peculiarity of that well. Water does not come from the sides but gushes from the bed.

May be the container hadn't been serviced for a while, God knows.

but here is something that you need to be aware of-

http://www.luton.gov.uk/internet/references/news/news%20archive/2008%20news%20releases/september%202008/05_09_08%20-%20dangerous%20levels%20of%20arsenic%20found%20in%20water%20brand

 Hygiene  is essential irrespective of what you are having and where.

I personally once went to K2 to get some Glacier water- i still have some after 10 years, it is supposed to be good for you - just check the web  :wow


 :peace:

kn

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 04:32:34 PM »
Peace,

I am more traditionalist then and I think this story has more to do with historical events, one of the hypothesis I found is a volcan eruption that killed the army of the elefant which did not occur in Mecca but more in North West Arabia.
and other hypothesis is the Jordan river battle between the arabs and the Byzantins (the people of the elefant) where Heraclius lost the battle.

Regards
This has been told in plain and straight words

And indeed We have hnoured and dignified the posterity of Adam and We have made them ride in the Earth and the Water Reservoir;


Agree with Mazhar. It seem that this very point of human being in an elevated status is also being pointed out in the translation quoted above from servantofthelight site, if it is linguistically correct.

For Herbman, please see that the different translation given above, is by no means denying or commenting on a historical event that may very well have happened, and you may very well be right in the possibility of this as a true event. The question here is however totally different. The issue here is, if you look at the translation given above from that site carefully, it is being stated that what is written in Arabic in the Qur'Aan, based on their linguistic understanding, as discussing a totally differnt topic, where we are lead to believe, that it is discussing about an elephant story. If their linguistic understanding is correct, then it is clear of course, that it is not discussing that historical event in this Surah that a lot of people believe as true, but a totally different topic.

I hope I am not confusing you. The issue here is not the truthfulness of a particular event, but a linguistic challange, that this is in reality talking about yet another principle of humanity as eluded to above and is not linguistically describing the elephant related story. The preface given above just before the translation is eluding to this point also.

May our Creator give us a true understanding in the linguistic terms as well, so we can spent time in understanding the principles of humanity described in this Book, so the humanity can truly benefit.

Mazhar

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Re: Birds Throwing Stones
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2010, 01:45:20 PM »
May be the container hadn't been serviced for a while, God knows.

but here is something that you need to be aware of-

http://www.luton.gov.uk/internet/references/news/news%20archive/2008%20news%20releases/september%202008/05_09_08%20-%20dangerous%20levels%20of%20arsenic%20found%20in%20water%20brand

 Hygiene  is essential irrespective of what you are having and where.

I personally once went to K2 to get some Glacier water- i still have some after 10 years, it is supposed to be good for you - just check the web  :wow

 :peace:
Read once again the link with little bit of open eyes. That is not Zam Zam. Someone is doing fraud in London toearncouple of pounds.