Undercover For the Sake of Monotheism

[Madhoshi04]

Bimsillaah
Assalaamo alaykom!

Sister Madhoshi, how did you go about when you first came to that Masjid? Did you come under the pretence to be a ?normal sunni muslim?. It is very obvious from reading your post that you not at all support the belief of this masjid you are attending. Do they know that? Or you have made them believe that you ?are like them?? You yourself call it undercover? so I can guess they have no idea whatsoever. I must be frank and say I find this very disrespectful. This is not how al-Quran teaches us how to behave. How can being undercover (as you yourself say) correspond with being honest, truthful and sincere? Are not we muslims (regardless of what we call ourselves) supposed to be truthful, honest, reliable and sincere towards the Creator and the creation? Or does al-Quran teach us to lie? Perhaps you go by the device ?by any means necessary?, fooling people in the name of God?! This is like Trotskyism in the muslim world. 

33:70 O you who believe, be aware of God and speak straight/true words

Personally I would be upset if someone came to me and made me believe he/she is sharing the same understanding of the deen as me and then taught my children something else. That person and what he/she stands for (in your case quranists/submitter/God aloner) would be someone and something I would completely lose trust and confidence in, and would absolutely not have any respect for them whatsoever. I think not only are you doing wrong, but you?re also doing yourself a disservice.

What is disrespectful about my behavior? Last time I checked, to be a ?sunni muslim? you have to accept Allah & his prophets from Abraham to Mohammed. I believe I would qualify. So how is that  disrespectful? I am ?like them? I am a Muslim like they are.  My beliefs are different, that is a personal variation. Are you so na?ve that you think all those sunni muslim uphold the same thing and believe in all the same Hadith? They have variation. Even our group here on free-minds has variation on every sort of matter ranging from salat to fasting to hajj.

You mention you would be upset if I ?pretended? to have the same deen and taught  your children ?something else.? What is this something else are you referring to? If you would of take a few minutes to read my post as you claim, you would of noticed I only encourage the reading of the quran. I don?t tell them to abandon the Hadith or any such thing. All I do is encourage and support them to read the quran. Is this not in your hypothetical ?sunni faith?? I am very careful in making sure I leave my own pesonal interpretation of verses out of the way. This would be deceitful indeed. I only encourage them to use their own brains and interpret whatever it is they believe to be true.

I have already retracted my ?undercover? stance. Kindly Refer to my previous posts.

One other thing, on the Day of Judgment, would you, the hypothetical sunni mother, still be angry with me for helping your children see the straight path? The only anger you would have is for being blind yourself.
Peace

[Madhoshi04]

Wow sister Waqiah, thanks for pointing this out. Well said. There is no excuse for tricking others into believing any ideology. I just foresaw the impact of them discovering her trickery.

salam,

What ideology are you reffering to? I'm not propogating "God Alone" stance. i'm simply encouraging the reading of the quran so they can at least know what it is they claim to uphold. Truth wins out. No one has to convince anyone of anything. this would be the worst approach. I'm hoping by reading the quran, they will perhaps realize a few discrepency between their current stance vs. the quranic stance, and start researching. If you or anyone has a better idea, You will find me patience and sincere. Let's hear it.

[abdalquran]

Allow me to quote what you said at the beginning of this thread:

Recently, I've started attending a sunni mosque with my own agenda    Try telling them you got your own agenda. Get some body armour before that please.

After the break, they are told various ?prophet stories? and other such things that will make anyone who believes in monotheism cringe. 
You consider yourself a monotheist, I guess. What does this make THEM? That shows your attitude on the matter. Do they know you think they're polythiests? 

Now, I been teaching about 30 students ranging from the age of 4-16 using our free-minds quran.
Yes, so don't tell us you're teaching 'the quran'. You're teaching an interpretation of the Quran, an interpretation they wouldn't approve of. A book which lists a website which would demean everything they believe in. Tell me that's not deceitful please?

Let me tell you that 'better idea'. Openly tell them your beliefs. Tell them you consider yourself monotheist but not them. Then no one will be cheated. Otherwise when they finally find out what 'free-minds' is, they'll say the same things about Quranists that they do about the shia. Sorry, I know your hearts in the right place but I can't agree with your methods.

[Waqiah]

Wow sister Waqiah, thanks for pointing this out. Well said. There is no excuse for tricking others into believing any ideology. I just foresaw the impact of them discovering her trickery.

Thank you!

[Waqiah]

Bismillaah

Thank you for your reply, Madhoshi04

What is disrespectful about my behavior? Last time I checked, to be a ?sunni muslim? you have to accept Allah & his prophets from Abraham to Mohammed. I believe I would qualify. So how is that  disrespectful? I am ?like them? I am a Muslim like they are.  My beliefs are different, that is a personal variation. Are you so na?ve that you think all those sunni muslim uphold the same thing and believe in all the same Hadith? They have variation. Even our group here on free-minds has variation on every sort of matter ranging from salat to fasting to hajj.

I am very well aware of that sunni-muslims are a diverse group with different views on some ahadeeth. But there is a big difference in being a ?quran-aloner? and a sunni-muslim, and you know that as well as I do. And from what you yourself have written, I find it clear you don?t see yourself as being ?like them?:

After the break, they are told various ?prophet stories? and other such things that will make anyone who believes in monotheism cringe.

And then you yourself said this:

and may come and ask me what this is all about. In this case, my answer will be  ?I don?t know. I believe in Allah and his revelations. And this was a nice and simple quran. Don?t you agree? I found it online when I was looking for a simple quran.??.. I know I?d be a hypocrite for lying if I was ever asked, but Allah knows why I?m at the masjid and I?m hoping that?s enough.

Is that not ?being undercover? and hiding your own belief? You are even willing to go against the Quran to get your message out. And yes, I have read that you don?t have a message to get out, you are only teaching the children Quran, but last time I checked, a translation isn?t the Quran, it is a translation and interpretation of the Quran. And you chose a translation/interpretation that you knew they wouldn?t have been approving if they had checked it up.

I am not saying it is wrong to encourage them to read a translation of the Quran in a language they understand, not at all. But it?s the way you go about doing it. Why not put up a note in the masjid, offering Quran study circles in your home or something, and invite people there and then tell them why and how you are understanding it, and see if they are interested? Or do as brother Abdalquran suggests, but I don?t think that will be very successful. 

Your last statement sounds very presumptuous. May God save us all from arrogance.

[FAR]

Allow me to quote what you said at the beginning of this thread:

Recently, I've started attending a sunni mosque with my own agenda    Try telling them you got your own agenda. Get some body armour before that please.

After the break, they are told various ?prophet stories? and other such things that will make anyone who believes in monotheism cringe. 
You consider yourself a monotheist, I guess. What does this make THEM? That shows your attitude on the matter. Do they know you think they're polythiests? 

Now, I been teaching about 30 students ranging from the age of 4-16 using our free-minds quran.
Yes, so don't tell us you're teaching 'the quran'. You're teaching an interpretation of the Quran, an interpretation they wouldn't approve of. A book which lists a website which would demean everything they believe in. Tell me that's not deceitful please?

Let me tell you that 'better idea'. Openly tell them your beliefs. Tell them you consider yourself monotheist but not them. Then no one will be cheated. Otherwise when they finally find out what 'free-minds' is, they'll say the same things about Quranists that they do about the shia. Sorry, I know your hearts in the right place but I can't agree with your methods.

One does not need to declare anything incriminating. Her goal is to teach the quran and let the children understand it. With the help of allah, she's doing something much better than what others are doing.

I cannot recall exactly where the reference of israelites failing to teach the book that was given to them. But it should be in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfflgF_H0kY

Quranists are already themselves, if they call themselves anything other than what the god has ordained... well they are shia. Refer to my disclaimer below.

[Madhoshi04]

Recently, I've started attending a sunni mosque with my own agenda.Try telling them you got your own agenda. Get some body armour before that please.

I did tell them I have my own agenda which is to get these kids to read the quran in English.

After the break, they are told various ?prophet stories? and other such things that will make anyone who believes in monotheism cringe.  You consider yourself a monotheist, I guess. What does this make THEM? That shows your attitude on the matter. Do they know you think they're polythiests?

Yes, I consider myself a monotheist,it doesn't mean it's true. Meaning, until God's judgement comes, you never really know. I spend a lot of time thinking abot school, that could very well be consider shirk. It is not my place to tell them what they are or are not. But yes, as someone looking from the outside, I can see the obvious polytheism.


Yes, so don't tell us you're teaching 'the quran'. You're teaching an interpretation of the Quran, an interpretation they wouldn't approve of. A book which lists a website which would demean everything they believe in. Tell me that's not deceitful please?

Okay. Obviously, you recognized I am teaching the interpretation of the quran. This is common knowledge known to us and sunni?s. We all know there is no such thing as literal translation whether it be Arabic or any other language. If it makes  you feel better, I will refer to the INTERPRETATION of the Quran so you can be at ease.

Why would they not approve of the interpretation of the Quran? Also, you are under the assumption I am using ONLY free-minds quran, I am not. Students have various translation ranging from free-minds to Oxford to Yusuf Ali. Would it make a difference if I told you we abandoned the free-minds interpretation of the quran and are using other Interpretation of the quran? I have no problem doing this, if  you give me a valid reason to do so.

Let me tell you that 'better idea'. Openly tell them your beliefs. Tell them you consider yourself monotheist but not them. Then no one will be cheated. Otherwise when they finally find out what 'free-minds' is, they'll say the same things about Quranists that they do about the shia. Sorry, I know your hearts in the right place but I can't agree with your methods

You still have not shown me how I am ?cheating? them by encouraging them to read the INTERPRETATION of the Quran? Why does it matter what I believe in? I?m not holding up a God Alone sign or in anyway injecting my own opinion & views.

[FAR]

It's a good thing I don't consider anyone my own people, other I too would probably get such criticism of giving quran to the people.

I too have an agenda...

that being to experience hoor al ayn in heaven for eternity.


That puts quite a spin to this smiley: 

[Madhoshi04]

I still fail to see God's problem with my method. Many people expressed their own personal issues, which is their opinion at the most. Like I"ve mentioned to brother Abdalquran, we are using various translation, it is not just free-minds translation. I started off using free-minds translation simply because it was an easy read, then with everyone's comment, I realized it is much better to use many different translation. So that's what we're doing.

FYI, I already hold a massive quran study group. If you are ever in the area, and would like to attend, send me a message.

I"m very active. I hope to open a quran only center. I'm gathering the resources & preparing myself to do so.

I have a major exam coming up. Please pray for me.  I will need about 2 months away from everyone on the forum & home & masjid to do this. I'll be back either mid June or July. Thank you all for your input. Peace. 

[Madhoshi04]

It's a good thing I don't consider anyone my own people, other I too would probably get such criticism of giving quran to the people.

I too have an agenda...

that being to experience hoor al ayn in heaven for eternity.


That puts quite a spin to this smiley: 

lolz