Author Topic: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back  (Read 72553 times)

Farabi

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #270 on: November 03, 2014, 10:03:09 PM »

It is talking about parents and children which has nothing to do with the topic.

You said you consider your wife a child, and it is your right to correct her. I asked do you consider yourself your wife's father? Answer me this simple question.

I am a man. My instinct is different than you. When I talked about religion, I always think religion is the way to put your instinct on the right place. And I dont know why each time Im afraid my girlfriend about to leave me or I have a suspicions that she will leave me my anger was invoked. I used to think maybe religions want me to use this instinc only for educate her, not unleashing my lust, beating her for a scape goat. I dont know how to put it on the right words.
At first I thought I'll be neutral by replacing my emotional attachment, what then happened was, I switch my side from the other extreme to the other one. I had no idea what is neutrality.

FindingRightPath

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #271 on: November 03, 2014, 10:13:14 PM »
I am a man. My instinct is different than you. When I talked about religion, I always think religion is the way to put your instinct on the right place. And I dont know why each time Im afraid my girlfriend about to leave me or I have a suspicions that she will leave me my anger was invoked. I used to think maybe religions want me to use this instinc only for educate her, not unleashing my lust, beating her for a scape goat. I dont know how to put it on the right words.

I don't know about that. I just asked do you consider yourself as your wife's father? It is yes or no.

Anyway, if you don't want to answer, it is fine. I hope your wife is safe though.
May God bless you.

Farabi

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #272 on: November 03, 2014, 10:48:40 PM »
I don't know about that. I just asked do you consider yourself as your wife's father? It is yes or no.

Anyway, if you don't want to answer, it is fine. I hope your wife is safe though.
May God bless you.

No Im not. Im not considering myself as my wife father. And I dont have wife yet.
At first I thought I'll be neutral by replacing my emotional attachment, what then happened was, I switch my side from the other extreme to the other one. I had no idea what is neutrality.

Wakas

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #273 on: November 04, 2014, 01:50:36 PM »
peace,

People tend to discriminate muslims by saying beating his wife is an obligations. It is not. Beating your wife is not an obligations, it is your right, and you can decide to do it or not. That allowance is to defend Job who are swore gonna beat her wife. And for that swore even though Job is regret it, God still command him to do his swore by taking a grass and do it.

That story is based on non-Quran sources.

For an explanation of it as per Quran, I recommend point 14 here:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

FindingRightPath

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #274 on: November 04, 2014, 07:51:20 PM »
No Im not. Im not considering myself as my wife father. And I dont have wife yet.

I can go on and on with this, but let me just come straight to the point. Why do you consider her as a child then? You are not her father. She is not your child. A wife is an adult, not a child. Don't compare her to a child then. It doesn't make sense. Beating is wrong.
Other than that, it is your choice if you can understand this or not. I hope I didn't offend you.

عوني

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #275 on: November 26, 2014, 07:42:53 AM »
Wife beating or children beating has absolutely NO place in Islam. Those 'muslims' who does any of this need to be removed from Islam for real.


TruthBehindIt

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #276 on: February 11, 2015, 07:43:38 AM »
Wife beating or children beating has absolutely NO place in Islam. Those 'muslims' who does any of this need to be removed from Islam for real.

Agreed  :handshake:

Man of Faith

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #277 on: February 11, 2015, 08:47:56 AM »
Thankfully it does not mention anything about wife beating in the passage in question.

Salaam
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Hizbullah

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #278 on: February 28, 2015, 12:54:58 AM »
Peace All,

So can you call Arabic an eloquent tongue, when one word "da ra ba", cause so much pain to thousands of women?

Think  :peace:
Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

Wakas

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #279 on: February 28, 2015, 04:39:16 AM »
peace,

So can you call Arabic an eloquent tongue, when one word "da ra ba", cause so much pain to thousands of women?

I'm not sure if any language can be called "eloquent", but perhaps you mean The Quran's use of such a language. If so, then not if it is used in a haphazard way with little or no way of determining meaning etc. However, in the case of DRB in Quran, there is consistent usage as shown in the article: www.Quran434.com

Quote
End Notes for Part 1


It has been shown that there is not one clear occurrence in The Quran in which "beat" is the meaning of DRB.


It seems that the default meaning of DRB is "to put/show forth (from one person/place to another person/place)". This core meaning fits into every occurrence, and thus could be seen as its basic/core meaning. Lane's Lexicon states that its meaning is "to put into commotion" which is similar. Of course, with various prepositions and subject matter, this basic meaning can be refined and better rendered depending on situation.

It is interesting to note from (11) and (12) that in similar contexts, The Quran switches from a non-literal/physical use of DRB (e.g. indicate) to a literal/physical use of DRB (e.g. strike / put forth / point out), by stating what the physical objects are and their interaction with the preposition "bi (with/by)".


The only verses in which the preposition "bi" is used with DRB are 24:31, 57:13, 26:63, 2:60, 7:160, 2:73, 38:44, 37:93, and in all these occurrences the meaning is a physical usage:

wal yadribna bi khumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna = and let them draw/cast with their covers over/on their chests [24:31]
wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna = and let them not strike/stamp/move with their feet [24:31]
fa duriba baynahum bi soorin = then put forth between them with a wall [57:13]
idrib bi AAasaka al bahra fa infalaqa = strike with your staff the sea, then it split/separated [26:63]
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa infajarat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then vented from it (twelve springs) [2:60]
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa inbajasat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then gushed from it (twelve springs) [7:160]
idriboohu bi baAAdiha = cite /point out him with some of it (the murder) [2:73]
Wa khuth bi yadika dighthan fa idribbihi wala tahnath = And take with your hand a handful, then collide /put forth with it, and do not incline towards falsehood [38:44]
Fa ragha AAalayhim darban bi al yameeni = then he turned upon them striking with the right hand [37:93]

There are two verses that may need clarification:
     2:73 should be noted that a murder/crime is something specific and a real world tangible object and thus can be referred to as such. This might offer a possible reason as to why 2:73 was traditionally translated as it was, because if a murder/crime was not seen as a valid object/reference to DRB with, then the only other valid object would be the dead heifer.
     38:44 the act of DRB upon what/whom is not specifically mentioned, thus several interpretations may have existed at the time. Once the true context and meaning is identified as shown previously, this aspect becomes self explanatory and what/whom is not needed.

 It is interesting to note that these are the only two verses with preposition "bi" that require careful study in order to reveal the most likely answer, thus for these two verses it is likely several interpretations may have existed. If physical/literal strike was one interpretation, then these verses could have been used to favour a physical/literal striking in 4:34.
 If DRB in 47:4 is taken as a physical strike as is commonly done, albeit as an idiom, then it would be the odd one out, as it does not use "bi". This gives further weight to the alternative understanding presented above.


##

Quote
All examples of DRB with a direct object and no prepositions mean "put/show forth", providing internal consistency of usage. And when used in the same way as 4:34, i.e. applied to a person in 43:57 and 2:73 it means the exact same thing. In 43:57 Jesus is the second object of the verb DuRiBa, and in this verse it is in the perfect passive form meaning the object received the action expressed in the verb, i.e. Jesus received DRB, i.e. Jesus was put/shown forth / cited/indicated (as an example) by those disputing. In 43:57 "mathala" could be considered an adverbial accusative that names or modifies the action of the verb. So the type of "darab" of the object "Jesus" is that of an "example". As we can clearly see a literal/physical striking of Jesus is nonsensical, and if we remove this modification of the verb, this shows when applied to a person as the object DRB on its own means to cite/indicate or put/show forth. A perfect match with 4:34 and 2:73.

In fact, to my knowledge, the conclusion of www.Quran434.com is the only work that provides overwhelming coherence in usage.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org