Author Topic: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back  (Read 71047 times)

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2011, 11:11:55 AM »
I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them?

I did not say this. Two parties are confronting war with each other. This signifies only one thing, each party is targetting and focussing on the necks/human bodies of the members of the other party.

So you are saying it: targeting and focusing on the necks\ human bodies!

What else would a simple verb as qtl or even drb not explain?

Student of Allah

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2011, 11:26:12 AM »
Shalom,

I think Shabir Ally was talking about this same thing as I saw in one of his videos. He said he wrote a paper where he demonstrated that the meaning is not to beat but to cite them to authority.

PEACE
-------------------- Student of Allah

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2011, 02:47:35 PM »
So you are saying it: targeting and focusing on the necks\ human bodies!

What else would a simple verb as qtl or even drb not explain?

We see the statement as is in the text and as it is related with other words in the sentence to perceive what is conveyed by this choice of words. We do not argue with the writer's choice of words. We have to perceive what is with us.

The possessive phrase, with a definite verbal noun because of second noun being definite, is the apodosis clause. It is not a command but mere depiction of that which happens once the confronting armies are face to face, have already met in the battlefield.

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2011, 03:36:03 PM »
We see the statement as is in the text and as it is related with other words in the sentence to perceive what is conveyed by this choice of words. We do not argue with the writer's choice of words. We have to perceive what is with us.

I am not arguing with the writer.  am arguing with you who believe the writer is inserting meaningless words, unlike His way of describing the same action all over the qur'aan.

A command, an advice or even just a description, the expression is still meaningless. Even you could not just keep with "strike the neck" but had to add "or the human body", and this still does not help!

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2011, 03:56:28 PM »
Then how would it become "meaningful"---what is its meanings which seem meaningful in the whole sentence/context.

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2011, 04:10:24 PM »
Then how would it become "meaningful"---what is its meanings which seem meaningful in the whole sentence/context.

Considering the army as a body and its "rigaab" are the lead soldiers. Those are the ones to be killed/ attacked to paralyze the aggression. Once this is achieved, captivate the others. 

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #106 on: November 10, 2011, 04:23:35 PM »
Considering the army as a body and its "rigaab" are the lead soldiers. Those are the ones to be killed/ attacked to paralyze the aggression. Once this is achieved, captivate the others.

فَإِذا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّى إِذَا أَثْخَنتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ

Sister please put it with the complete translation, so that I can comprehend it more clearly; notwithstanding that lead soldiers are nowhere considered as the most crucial formation of the battlefield. The attack and full agression follows after them.

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #107 on: November 11, 2011, 02:19:07 AM »
فَإِذا لَقِيتُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَضَرْبَ الرِّقَابِ حَتَّى إِذَا أَثْخَنتُمُوهُمْ فَشُدُّوا الْوَثَاقَ

Sister please put it with the complete translation, so that I can comprehend it more clearly; notwithstanding that lead soldiers are nowhere considered as the most crucial formation of the battlefield. The attack and full agression follows after them.

The result of this "ضرب الرقاب" is exhausting the aggression and enabling you to take them as captives. The aim is not to create a genocide. Remember, the "muslims" are not the aggressors but the defendants. They are being attacked. They have to have a good strategy to subdue the enemy. The "rigaab" of the army are the most important. I believed they were the lead soldiers. I may be wrong, but the rigaab are the most important of the army. After the exhaustion comes the captivation and the negotiations.

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #108 on: November 11, 2011, 02:35:34 AM »
The result of this "ضرب الرقاب" is exhausting the aggression and enabling you to take them as captives. The aim is not to create a genocide. Remember, the "muslims" are not the aggressors but the defendants. They are being attacked. They have to have a good strategy to subdue the enemy. The "rigaab" of the army are the most important. I believed they were the lead soldiers. I may be wrong, but the rigaab are the most important of the army. After the exhaustion comes the captivation and the negotiations.

This perception that the operative strategy in the battlefield, once both the armies are confronting each other, the defending army should be restricted to finding and killing only the so called most important of the enemy army can be had only when the most stupid of the generals is heading the defending army. Such instructions are never issued in the battlefield to place one's own army and soldiers in a confused state of mind risking their lives. Decisions in war are on the spur of the moment, kill or get killed.

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #109 on: November 11, 2011, 03:08:20 AM »
This perception that the operative strategy in the battlefield, once both the armies are confronting each other, the defending army should be restricted to finding and killing only the so called most important of the enemy army can be had only when the most stupid of the generals is heading the defending army. Such instructions are never issued in the battlefield to place one's own army and soldiers in a confused state of mind risking their lives. Decisions in war are on the spur of the moment, kill or get killed.

إِذْ يُوحِي رَبُّكَ إِلَى الْمَلَائِكَةِ أَنِّي مَعَكُمْ فَثَبِّتُوا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۚ سَأُلْقِي فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الرُّعْبَ فَاضْرِبُوا فَوْقَ الْأَعْنَاقِ وَاضْرِبُوا مِنْهُمْ كُلَّ بَنَانٍ


 8:12
 Why not just drb ala3naaq? No difference between 3unq and raqaba?