Author Topic: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back  (Read 70965 times)

Wakas

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2011, 03:17:01 AM »
What Wakas is suggesting is also based upon what he derives from the Arabic words. He says, "so it is reasonable to assume it refers to something not done in the husband's presence. This could be related to the earlier use of "...guardians to the unseen...". If we take these factors into account, it suggests unseen "disloyalty/infidelity/ill-conduct/rebellion" in some way." Words like "Unseen "disloyalty/infidelity" are loaded with something of extreme negativity while there is no such thing indicated by the word used as object of "fear".
And "unseen by husabd" denotes something done during the time of his absence. The verb does not support this. Contrary to the baseless presumption of many people that a word may have many meanings, each verb signifies something specific.

Thanks for clarifying. Your reply demonstrates what I suspected, i.e. you did not understand what I wrote.

The original statement you quoted of mine pieces together information and is not all about the verb "fear"! By applying logic, I was able to demonstrate how the pieces of information fit together perfectly.

Your so-called objection is irrelevant.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2011, 03:49:09 AM »
Thanks for clarifying. Your reply demonstrates what I suspected, i.e. you did not understand what I wrote.

The original statement you quoted of mine pieces together information and is not all about the verb "fear"! By applying logic, I was able to demonstrate how the pieces of information fit together perfectly.

Your so-called objection is irrelevant.

Peace Wakas,

I was not expecting that eventually you will call it "logic". Strange!!
Logic does not permit that one should assume meanings of words having no relevance to the word itself. I feel sorry that arriving at, and then remainingg hard, you seem not to have even given a thought to the word "Nashooz" which also does not permit to presume what you have presumed.

Wakas

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2011, 05:22:16 AM »
Quote
Logic does not permit that one should assume meanings of words having no relevance to the word itself.

Exactly, thats why I did not do that.

Quote
you seem not to have even given a thought to the word "Nashooz" which also does not permit to presume what you have presumed.
Ahh, so now you claim I also err with "nushuz", yet provide no clarification as to how. Interesting.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2011, 04:52:11 AM »
Update:

The $1000 challenge has been launched:
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=10951

Even though it's open to all, I posted it on the most anti-Islam forum I knew of, hence the above.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2011, 07:23:29 AM »
Sister Samia I wish you all happiness. For the purpose of seeking guidance and expert opinion, I want to point out that I recall to have checked it somewhere [now I am not able to find it where I got it] that plural of رقيب is رُقَبَاءُ while رَقَبَةٌ is the singular of رِقَابٌ.

I may clarify that رِقَابٌ was later started being used for the whole human body and metonimically [عرف]it also became the name for referring to slaves.

Salaam Mazhar
Thanks for your kind wishes

It is not uncommon in Arabic to have more than a pattern for the plural of one word.
Example of words that have both plurals of فعلاء and فعال :

عظيم - عظماء - عظام
كبير - كبراء - كبار
طريف - ظرفاء - ظراف
كريم - كرماء - كرام
Moreover, رقبة itself has two more plurals at least.
Quraan does not follow rules of grammarians. Our latest discussion on the nouns of place show how the grammarians consider at least four words mentioned in the qur'aan as "odd" according to their "rules".
The context rules. Why would the army of "muslims" kill the slaves first? The word drb on its own, according to classical dictionaries, mean to strike with a sword or to strike to kill. When we say: strike the "rigaab" it would mean, according to you, (kill the slaves). Did the army even reach the stage of having slaves, let alone kill them specifically? The word "ragaba" also indicates the noble part of the body, and is still used as such, the part that takes the responsibility and the part used to subdue the person. In an army, it has to be those take the first responsibility to attack, like a ragaba to a human body, a vital job for the success of the army or the attackers. This has to be eliminated first.
The use of "rigaab" to indicate slaves is not a common understanding. It's just a corruption of the meaning of a word in the qur'aan. Like many other words such as muhsanaat and MMA, which magically became free women and slave women. Every word is turned into slavery and sex.

huruf

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2011, 08:02:49 AM »



 Every word is turned into slavery and sex.





Looks as if you were talking about cinema.


Salaam

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2011, 08:26:44 AM »


Looks as if you were talking about cinema.


Salaam

hehehehe
and forgot to add "violence"

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2011, 08:39:31 AM »
Quote
The context rules. Why would the army of "muslims" kill the slaves first? The word drb on its own, according to classical dictionaries, mean to strike with a sword or to strike to kill. When we say: strike the "rigaab" it would mean, according to you, (kill the slaves). Did the army even reach the stage of having slaves, let alone kill them specifically?

This is not my understanding.
 I translate it like this:

For reason/in response when you people have confronted in war those who have refused to believe then resultantly the obvious target [for both the warring parties] are the necks/human bodies-mutual hitting till such point in time [during the currency of fight] that you have succeeded in overpowering/caused them drop weapons/made them exhausted/subdued
thereat you people are hereby directed to [not to kill but] firmly bind-arrest them/take them prisoners of war, since the questions of releasing them as gesture of obliging favour or on ransom arises afterwards when the war may surrender/lay down the weapons [the enemy has been totally subdued].

Samia

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2011, 09:17:18 AM »
This is not my understanding.
 I translate it like this:

For reason/in response when you people have confronted in war those who have refused to believe then resultantly the obvious target [for both the warring parties] are the necks/human bodies-mutual hitting

I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them? drb alone suffies. Moreover, killing in fighting does not necessarily target necks. There is nowhere in the qur'aan this expression is used to mean just kill, although killing enemies and transgressors in war is mentioned more than once, and the simple verb "qtl" is used.

Mazhar

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Re: Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2011, 09:41:03 AM »
I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them?

I did not say this. Two parties are confronting war with each other. This signifies only one thing, each party is targetting and focussing on the necks/human bodies of the members of the other party. Thereafter, one party becomes subdued or surrenders whereby hostility aimed at killing the members of other party comes to halt.