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How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

Started by nimnimak_11, January 10, 2010, 03:26:09 AM

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Man of Faith

Peace Earthdom,

It is a law in Sweden giving some rights to couples who decide to live together without being formally married. Emil posted some link in an earlier post.

God bless you
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Earthdom

Quote from: Man of Faith on May 14, 2013, 01:28:32 PM
It is a law in Sweden giving some rights to couples who decide to live together without being formally married. Emil posted some link in an earlier post.

Sorry, I didn't realize it, if the links already posted by @Emil in previous pages.Btw thanks.

justamuslim

I don't agree that legal marriage provides protection.   If anything when there is a system in place, tendency is to abuse the system to one's advantage.   My ex used the legal system to get his green card.  Having marriage ceremonies/papers with witnesses don't provide protection.   I can list many other examples besides marrying for green card and the list will be long.   

God does not stipulate that there needs to be a ceremony, papers signed, needing witnesses unlike in divorce.  An oath taken by a couple with only God as a witness is sufficient - granted that the oath is taken as a commitment to base the marriage on mutual respect and compassion.   Would the oath be invalid just because it was not written down, registered in some court, or having human witnesses?   
The question is what are the standards and terms of marriage defined by God.   

Now the question is what does God say about casual sex or one night stands or sex without having an oath (ex dating) or taking an oath just to have sex? My understanding is that this is not lawful but I acknowledge that I am influenced  by extra quranic views as well.


Emil

Quote from: justamuslim on May 17, 2013, 09:02:57 PM
I don't agree that legal marriage provides protection.   If anything when there is a system in place, tendency is to abuse the system to one's advantage.   My ex used the legal system to get his green card.  Having marriage ceremonies/papers with witnesses don't provide protection.   I can list many other examples besides marrying for green card and the list will be long.   

God does not stipulate that there needs to be a ceremony, papers signed, needing witnesses unlike in divorce.  An oath taken by a couple with only God as a witness is sufficient - granted that the oath is taken as a commitment to base the marriage on mutual respect and compassion.   Would the oath be invalid just because it was not written down, registered in some court, or having human witnesses?   
The question is what are the standards and terms of marriage defined by God.   

Now the question is what does God say about casual sex or one night stands or sex without having an oath (ex dating) or taking an oath just to have sex? My understanding is that this is not lawful but I acknowledge that I am influenced  by extra quranic views as well.

Salam Sister

I agree with you entirely. Are you sure though there are no witnesses needed? I must admit I have misunderstood/misinterpreted.....now when I check I cannot find any verse stating there is need for any witness.

So therefore I am asking you, you sure?

justamuslim

@emil

Couple of years go did my research on marriage/divorce and did not find verse in koran stating that witnesses are needed with marriage.  However when it comes to divorce, an oath with God and two just human witnesses are needed.   Now, there are those who say that marriage is a contract and witnesses are needed when two parties enter a contract and thus, marriage need to be witnessed.   But then again, this is a deduction based on viewing marriage as a contract.   

in many arranged marraiges, basically marriage is a business transaction.  But not per Koran though. How much gift a man gives his wife is not something that needs to be made public and recorded on paper.  if the woman forgoes the gift, she doesn't have to publicize it.  A lot of what we think, believe and practice are based on traditions which have then been attributed to God.   

There are those who say that paper and witnesses provide protection.  But from what and how?  How can documents and witnesses make sure that the "contract" is honored?  Can't force someone to love and care.  A sociopath for example doesn't care who s/he hurts - papers and witnesses mean nothing.  if anything, a sociopath will try to manipulate the system/people to get what s/he wants.  What provides protection is when God conscience persons get married with the intention of wanting to lead an "Islamic" life so to speak - to love and care for each other.  And God advices couples not to be selfish and work on resolving problems should they arise.  In other words, take the oath seriously. 

Anyhow, I am quite sure that there are no verses to be found in the Koran stating that witnesses/papers are needed for marriage.   However, witnesses are needed for divorce. 

If I am in the wrong, please do correct me and let me know.  I sure would not want to go around saying something that is not true.   

Emil

Quote from: justamuslim on May 18, 2013, 08:18:51 AM

Anyhow, I am quite sure that there are no verses to be found in the Koran stating that witnesses/papers are needed for marriage.   However, witnesses are needed for divorce. 

If I am in the wrong, please do correct me and let me know.  I sure would not want to go around saying something that is not true.

Quote from: justamuslim on May 18, 2013, 08:18:51 AM
If I am in the wrong, please do correct me and let me know.  I sure would not want to go around saying something that is not true.

Salam Sister

I don't know why but for some reason I thought that witnesses were required.....Don't ask me where I got it from, obviously there was a short circuit somewhere in my brain.....Once you said "no witnesses" I checked it out and just like you I can not find any requirement but for divorce.

Signing a contract is good because

1) It gives the relationship depth
2) It shows the to-be spouses that they are serious about the relationship
3) Without a contract there is no obligation to follow the divorce rules

All above has nothing to do with the Quran........It has to do with what we require, not Allah.

My way of saying I agree with you. We must understand the difference between Quranic and society rulings.

hawk99

Quote from: Man of Faith on May 14, 2013, 09:17:46 AM
Peace Emil, (frid)
Swedish people generally have a tendency to feel it is taboo to discuss religion (from first hand experience). It is often deemed inappropriate (fult) to discuss God and religion.
In my family we were not allowed to discuss such things, it was against etiquette almost. It was "fult" :)
God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

What is the predominant religion in Sweden?

God Bless

   :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Man of Faith

Peace hawk99,

Atheism. Or if you need a religion then Christianity, but people are just skenheliga (hypocrites). :)

However, I was a bit mean. There are actually good Christians here, I knew a few.

People in Sweden are against religion because it has caused and is causing so much animosity in the world, and because it is not trendy to believe. People think it is primitive to believe in God. There is a social majority who affect the rest and people are afraid of being humiliated for trying religion.

On another level it may have to do with the fact that certain things are taboo to discuss in Sweden, such as politics, religion, someone's work and income. Swedes have an "interesting" mentality.

God bless you
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

justamuslim

Quote from: Emil on May 18, 2013, 01:32:18 PM

All above has nothing to do with the Quran........It has to do with what we require, not Allah.

My way of saying I agree with you. We must understand the difference between Quranic and society rulings.

Exactly my point!  Personally, if I were to get married again, would get a lawyer first before taking any oath.  Prenuptial agreement which includes following God's commands pertaining to marriage/divorce (although one would think this should be a no brainer but....) and then a legal marriage is the way for me if there is going to be a next time around.  I have had some bad experiences and been through much.   Now, having prenuptial agreement is not contradictory to the koran and nor is someone who simply takes a verbal oath with no witnesses.   

hawk99

Quote from: Man of Faith on May 19, 2013, 08:11:23 AM
Peace hawk99,

Atheism. Or if you need a religion then Christianity, but people are just skenheliga (hypocrites). :)

However, I was a bit mean. There are actually good Christians here, I knew a few.

People in Sweden are against religion because it has caused and is causing so much animosity in the world, and because it is not trendy to believe. People think it is primitive to believe in God. There is a social majority who affect the rest and people are afraid of being humiliated for trying religion.

On another level it may have to do with the fact that certain things are taboo to discuss in Sweden, such as politics, religion, someone's work and income. Swedes have an "interesting" mentality.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

Yes they do have an interesting mentality according to you.  One more question if you
don't mine, among the christians are the majority catholic or protestant.

God Bless

   :peace:   
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden