How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

[SarahY]

What makes me ungrateful? the lack of capacity to understand you the way you want me to understand you? I think that is ungrateful. pardon my incompetence.

I think lots of people struggle in Australia, it's not just muslims. why do you particularly think it's the muslims?

Australia is closer to a slave nation, still with lots of opportunity...money talks, everyone's chasing money...as for love, it borders with idolatry for some couples, although it's not the only love around...but I'm sorry to say that I have seen women here act like the worst dog satan, their curse it's like a body with a hollow shell filled with black shit flies...reeks of betrayal.

The living costs in Australia are expensive, so you're bound to find many people chasing after money to keep up with the Joneses.

Well it's sad that you have experience with some women acting in all sorts of disgraceful manners. Life isn't just your experiences, remember that. anyway you've had experiences in Iran, so how's that, you think that's the ideal model?

[t-hamzei]

ungrateful because you think I'm going to answer to you now. ungrateful because in Australia you don't have rights, there is no bill of rights, the only constitutional right may be to practice your religion and to an education, how many educated muslims out there in Australia?

so yes another primitive behavioural trait is for the female to control the male, down to every last movement, it's either to conserve energy again maternal, but yes very primitive, very disrespectful...do you know respect or not, you're not sure.....even if there's plenty of food to be comfortable, no risk to survival, the female will be controlling out of sheer pleasure...so yes, in Australia the ranking proceeds more like the queen, female governor general, female prime minister, then it's their males, their females, other white males, white females, then it's the gay, then it's non-caucasian females, then the non-caucasian males, then it's their poodle, then it's the pig and then it's the muslim....that's their order of preference in hiring people, in showing respect to you...so if you're bound to Mr.Jones' right hand or whatever it is you're talking about you should know I'm already practicing restraint by not being aggressive towards you. Out of the 8 years you've been jamming messages on here you'd think it's enough, for Allah and for yourself, what have you learnt on here? stop using the forum sister, it's good advice. 

so in summary sex can be dangerous, can lead to dangerous situations for the male...also dangerous because of the females perception of personal power, the perception of the female being in power of the said object, sometimes perceiving their own genitals as a commodity as an avenue for trade or to gain negotiating power, more social power in quelling their insecurities...if it's not where it is, it's where it may lead to...so please be moderate, practice self-restraint, have some common sense and in all opportunities do the right thing and get married first.

[Emil]

so in summary sex can be dangerous, can lead to dangerous situations for the male...also dangerous because of the females perception of personal power, the perception of the female being in power of the said object, sometimes perceiving their own genitals as a commodity as an avenue for trade or to gain negotiating power, more social power in quelling their insecurities...if it's not where it is, it's where it may lead to...so please be moderate, practice self-restraint, have some common sense and in all opportunities do the right thing and get married first.

Speak for yourself..........mate......

Have you completely missed that Allah is telling the woman to lower her gaze, do not shake her booty, and the best dress is the dress of righteoussnes?
You are debating with a devout muslim sister, my brother.......do not confuse her with whatever perception you have of the people of Australia.

And oh so sad that you are on the bottom of the totem pole..............oh wait, in your self-pity you forgot the aborigines....or they don't count?

My apologies Sarah, no my intention of butting in.

[Earthdom]

@nimnimak_11 you must re-read verse 24:31

It says the woman wasn't allowed tho eksploit their private part or aurat to non mahram man except on the list

[SarahY]

t-hamzei

Why live in a country you feel suffocated in. Don't feel the need to answer to me but you can answer to yourself and save yourself from your own anguish. There are many educated Muslims out in Australia, maybe if you went to some university you would realise that many campuses have Muslim Associations. It wouldn't be the case if there wasn't a demand or Muslims getting educated.

I don't need to control you or any man for that matter, for what benefit do I get? I find it very disrespectful that you claim false accusations against me.

If you've had bad experience of getting hired, that's not pleasant but no need to lash out. BTW  if you have any solid evidence of being discriminated against, you could sue the company.

What I am talking about, is that some people imitate each other. So if someone buys a fancy car, others may want to too, other go on holidays the others want to too. Not everyone is like that not everyone is driven by envy, greed, jealousy etc. 

I've learnt quite a few things on this forum, alhamdulillah. I don't need to justify my stay on here brother. If it's such a bad place what brings you here?

I personally do not advocate sex before marriage, so don't just look down and pick on women. There is a lot of evil out there on both parts but remember it takes 2 to tango if it's not clear, it takes 2 people to have sex. So both men and women should practise self restraint. Everyone is responsible for their actions no matter how a person is enticed.

Np Emil thanks for putting your perspective.

Sometimes we can be drowned in situations that nothing else looks like hell except our own lives.

Oh and t-hamzei it's true that my eyes may fail to see things and that is not directly linked to my sex i.e. being female but rather because I am human and lack knowledge. Even you are human. yeh, men are human too and mankind was created weak 4:28

peace.

[t-hamzei]

Have you completely missed that Allah is telling the woman to lower her gaze, do not shake her booty, and the best dress is the dress of righteoussnes?
You are debating with a devout muslim sister, my brother.......do not confuse her with whatever perception you have of the people of Australia.

we've already mentioned lowering gaze in earlier posts and the definition of that and showing respect. As a muslim I presume rank is higher than non-muslims, that is within the patriarchal muslim community, highest rank being that of Allah followed by the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam, is the actual ranking system.

[nimnimak_11]

@nimnimak_11 you must re-read verse 24:31

It says the woman wasn't allowed tho eksploit their private part or aurat to non mahram man except on the list

24:31 And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.


I looked at it again. It is on the list.
One possible meaning of Ma malekat aymunkum= fiance, girlfriend concubine etc.

Peace

[t-hamzei]

4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means: For Allah is Most High, Great.

There, stamped it, took out the brackets if that's ok. I suppose I'm bias or that I'm not allowed to interpret without getting disrespected. ok I'll just post and stamp....it's a bottom up approach instead of a top to bottom. How do you put the whole thing together? Biased is the western system for not understanding the nature of man.

[Emil]

we've already mentioned lowering gaze in earlier posts and the definition of that and showing respect. As a muslim I presume rank is higher than non-muslims, that is within the patriarchal muslim community, highest rank being that of Allah followed by the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam, is the actual ranking system.

You forgot all the other prophets, please show them respect as well. Here is a list of them in case you didnt know

1. Adam
2. Idris (Enok)
3. Nuh (Noa)
4. Hud
5. Salih
6. Ibrahim (Abraham)
7. Isma'il (Ismael)
8. Ishaq (Isak)
9. Yaqub (Jakob)
10. Lut (Lot)
11. Shu'ayb
12. Yusuf (Josef)
13. Ayoub (Job)
14. Dhul-Kifl
15. Yunus (Jona)
16. Musa (Moses) and Harun (Aron)
17. Hizqeel (Hesekiel)
18. Elyas (Elia)
19. Shammil (Samuel)
20. Dawud (David)
21. Sulaiman (Salomo)
22. Shia (Jesaja)
23. Aramaya (Jeremia)
24. Daniel
25. Uzair (Esra)
26. Zakariyah (Sakarias)
27. Yahya (Johannes)
28. Isa (Jesus)
29. Muhammad

What I mean is that a woman talking back to you (because you are a man) has nothing to do with respect. It has nothing to do with any of the prophets and it definately has nothing to do with the Quran. Not agreeing with you has nothing to do with disobedience. You are clearly confused as to why women do not show you the respect you feel you deserve according to Islam........What you have failed to understand is that according to Islam you do not get respect unless you self is respectful.

[salgan]

Peace t -hamzei
No disrespect intended but did your mother treaty you badly ,you seem to have a great hatred for women sorry if I have caused any offence.

Peace Salim