How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

[Zulf]

Regarding 1, I think that it's when two people have sufficiently gotten to know each other and are both comfortable and happy about having sex. This is regardless of whether they have gotten married or not.

Well, the chance is that "sufficiently" would be defined according to the physical desire that the involved persons experience at the given time. And that level can be reached very quickly. The hormones would define "sufficiently", leaving the rest of the brain on hold, and the risk is you'd end up regretting what has transpired, due to action without wisdom. Unfortunately, there is no undo-button in real life. Thinking with your d*** is not always the wisest thing, believe it or not.

Secondly, I wonder why people cannot feel the emotional connection that is created when you have sex with someone. The more people you "mix with", the more broken, emotional connections you'd have. Not good.

Thirdly, I wonder why people are so afraid of getting married. Ok, young and inexperienced (immature) people would many times consider marriage as something too heavy for them... but why do they not hesitate to have sex with someone that they openly are having doubts about. I mean, if you're not interested in marriage, that means you sincerely are considering that you may break off from that relationship sooner or later. It seems many people would like to both eat and keep the cookie. Sex, but freedom to change partner. This is, in my opinion, emotionally odd.

Regarding 2, I think once a week (for various reasons)

This would naturally vary tremendously from person to person and from time to time depending on a variety of reason such as e.g. mood, health, preoccupation with other things, physical activities, environment etc.

Regarding 3, I think that fantasies and fetishes that involve domination or degradation or other like things should be kept away because their addictive and I also think that they are detrimental to sex's potential in providing feelings of love and affection regarding the two individuals involved.   

This depends totally on how the involved people look at sex. You could have different types of sex at different times (in different moods). Regarding love and affection, well, it depends totally on the maturity of the people. Also, regarding fantasies, fetishes and such things, it is not so different from non-sexual situations. One should think and act in a positive and constructive manner, whether it is about sex or not. Detrimental things should be avoided no matter what we are talking about.

[nimnimak_11]

I am sorry brother but I have to challenge you here.....What you are saying has absolutely no Qur reference at all. Or maybe your comments are not based on the Quran? Please respond, because if you derive your conclusions from Islam then I will be like

Challenge accepted (just kidding)

The gist of the replies towards T-hamzei weren't primarily in relation to what the Quran says. From what I read they looked more like personal opinions on sex. So I gave my personal opinions on the rights and wrongs of sex. My opinion takes into account my interpretation of Quran's guidelines on sex.

Points 1, 2 and 3 in my previous post are personal opinions on how to get the best out of sex and how not to transgress.

[nimnimak_11]

Well, the chance is that "sufficiently" would be defined according to the physical desire that the involved persons experience at the given time. And that level can be reached very quickly.

Depends on the individual. One person might think I really want this and refuse to take into account other potentially important considerations. Another individual might be more cautious and think something like although I really want this, it's too soon because I don't trust this person enough yet

If it becomes the case that sufficiently is primarily defined by physical desire but other important factors such as (is this person trustworthy, am I emotionally ready for this, have I/they got sufficient protection, etc.) then there is nothing wrong with following this physical desire IMO.

The hormones would define "sufficiently", leaving the rest of the brain on hold, and the risk is you'd end up regretting what has transpired, due to action without wisdom. Unfortunately, there is no undo-button in real life. Thinking with your d*** is not always the wisest thing, believe it or not.

The individual who's desire outweighs his/her rationality will inevitably suffer consequences if he/she forgoes reason for the sake of desire. This can happen in or out of marriage.

For example a married couple who aren't ready for a child both financially and mentally would be acting recklessly if they engaged in unprotected sex with each other.

Secondly, I wonder why people cannot feel the emotional connection that is created when you have sex with someone. The more people you "mix with", the more broken, emotional connections you'd have. Not good.

Some do, some don't. One of my friends who got married (this was sort of a forced marriage) lost her virginity to the guy she married and she said she hated it and felt humiliated. There was no connection there at all and this was her first time. I think that its all down to who sleeps with who and for what purpose they sleep with each other.
Because of this I really don't think that a person who has had many different partners would become so numb as to fail to love again or to engage in sex in an affectionate manner. It depends on what the person wants from sex and from the person they intend to have sex with.

Thirdly, I wonder why people are so afraid of getting married. Ok, young and inexperienced (immature) people would many times consider marriage as something too heavy for them... but why do they not hesitate to have sex with someone that they openly are having doubts about.

Deciding to marry someone is a much bigger decision than having sex with someone. The level of trust needed for marrying someone (commit to them for the rest of your life, split everything with them financially and so on) should be higher than sex. There are more factors to consider when deciding on marrying someone than when deciding on sleeping with someone.

It seems many people would like to both eat and keep the cookie. Sex, but freedom to change partner. This is, in my opinion, emotionally odd.

I don't think that the price of sex should be marriage. Even in a marriage (perhaps one of the most serious commitments anyone can make) you are still free to change partners so long as you first divorce.

Outside of marriage, the person who would quickly dump someone and move onto another person without consideration for the person they've dumped is acting selfishly. As does the person who marries for money then divorces immediately for the wrong reasons.

This would naturally vary tremendously from person to person and from time to time depending on a variety of reason such as e.g. mood, health, preoccupation with other things, physical activities, environment etc.

I agree.

One should think and act in a positive and constructive manner, whether it is about sex or not. Detrimental things should be avoided no matter what we are talking about.

I think so too.

[Emil]

Challenge accepted (just kidding)

The gist of the replies towards T-hamzei weren't primarily in relation to what the Quran says. From what I read they looked more like personal opinions on sex. So I gave my personal opinions on the rights and wrongs of sex. My opinion takes into account my interpretation of Quran's guidelines on sex.

Points 1, 2 and 3 in my previous post are personal opinions on how to get the best out of sex and how not to transgress.

Ok brother, phew......got worried there for a while..... ............

[nimnimak_11]

Ok brother, phew......got worried there for a while..... ............

nothing to worry about brother 

[t-hamzei]

...took me a while to reply, but yeah looking at all the responses I guess it does take some common sense this day in age. Unfortunately in Australia, the culture has taken a turn against marriage and religious practices whether they be through Islam or christianity, towards a more matriarchal society, especially with a female prime minister. If anyone is interested please read on...

The difference between matriarchal and more patriarchal societies where God is worshiped is female dominance instead of male dominance in the latter. The reason it's interesting is that you can draw parallels in human behaviour to that of other animals. In female dominant societies or even smaller social groups, females tend to be selective based on sex or also known as sexual selection. The problem is the females abuse their power and do not perceive the world in the same way as men due to their primal instincts that were conducive of their survival, such as maternal instinct and in selecting healthy mates, women tend to jump from one male to the other in looking for the exact right match. So yeah, in their perception of personal power as tangible they become materialistic, they choose men for their wealth in securing their progeny, or based on sexual performance, penis size etc. basically for the wrong reasons as it sets a certain selective pressure to reproduce stronger children in that area alone....in a multicultural society it makes women racist as they prefer whiter men or the men that are in the highest social circles, and tends to leave men in the lowest social circles without sex or partners or anything. This can lead to murder, crime, homosexual behaviour and many problems due to their suppressed aggression or due to their opression that are simply wrong, so there is one of the benefits of following the religion and the Qur 'an for what it teaches can have benefits that aren't immediately obvious.

the funny thing is, if people are even further interested these parallels in behaviour can be seen in the bonobo, a version of the chimpanzee only much more sexually active, that forms matriarchal societies. These two species were seperated by the Congo river about 1.5-2 million years ago and because of their inability to swim across the river these very distinct behavioural traits are very easily seen between the bonobo and the chimpanzee that is patriarchal and has alpha males within its social circles. The Qur'an may be serving a similar purpose to this river as it's dividing humans that are taking their own road in life, or have already for millions of years taken their own evolutionary path. 

[SarahY]

How do you mean Australia has taken a turn against marriage and religious practices? In Australia the government isn't represented by 1 person rather by the party so it won't matter so significantly if it was a female head or a male head.

BTW materialism is prominent in all western societies, we live in a consumerist world. so no doubt people are becoming more materialistic no doubt that has influences on their choices.

A lot of what you said is very very bias and totally unrelated to this thread, you should start your own thread.

[t-hamzei]

basically, if you can't understand what I'm writing it's not my problem, you're an excellent example of provocation and disobedience...what one persons eyes and especially what one females eyes maybe will never be able to see is what they immediately or over time through gradual conditioning is this provocation in males and their surmounted suppressed aggression due to the deterrence effect of the laws of the country. It doesn't deter women from engaging in random sexual practices, or depriving men, which they believe is in their nature but does deter man from acts of aggression that is in their competitive nature to other males. So yes it is why Islam prescribes that you don't rise up above man, that you lower your gaze, that you wear a hejab wherever you go, do not associate with anyone other than your husband, because it is in your nature and in your development of your brain that you will never perceive what I'm trying to explain to you....p.s. as well as Gillard there's the queen of England, and a female governor general, either way there is a stratification of females and males so that the females perceive that if they marry to someone of higher status, their children will also benefit, naturally. It may not directly apply to women in the muslim community, but they may be taking bad example off non-muslim women without noticing. 

[SarahY]

Do you feel as a male you are suppressed because of the laws of your country?

Where does it say women do not rise up above men?

Lowering of the gaze is for both sexes

The hejab wearing is not prescribed in the Quran

It doesn't say don't associate with anyone other than your husband, unless you mean sexually.

Maybe it is in your nature to feel pride and anger so you lash out.

The queen of England has little power, Australia is a constitutional monarchy and a representative democracy

there is no guarantee that marrying someone of "higher status" will benefit their off springs however people try to stack the odds in their favour. Status isn't everything.

[t-hamzei]

listen sister I can teach you a few things but that's how ungrateful you are, I'm not here to pretend to be this psychologist, I'm not even interested and human behaviour is very complicated. All I'm saying is I have a world of experience with people here with people in Iran, that is an Islamic country, but you go by what the Qur'an says, you look it up and go by that. If you're not muslim good luck to you, I don't know you, live your own life. I'm here to remind you that ancient people acted in a certain way before monotheism came in, if you are half way between muslim and western it's not my problem.

I was suggesting that if it's difficult for you to interpret the Qur'an you can draw parallels between humans and monkey societies. If you don't see aggression in every male, or in males that don't alleviate it through sex, that's how little you even come close to understanding men...and yes it's for both sexes to lower their gaze.

The governor general is appointed by the queen and can push the elected prime minister out any time, that has definitely happened once in history, if not twice...so yes the head of state here is Quentin Bryce.

Anyway what you're writing is deviating from what I'm saying, read my other posts word for word and look things up if you're interested in the behavioural science. It's muslims in Australia that are getting stepped on, being incarcerated, covered in tats from head to toe, it's those people that no one cares about. Australia is closer to a slave nation, still with lots of opportunity...money talks, everyone's chasing money...as for love, it borders with idolatry for some couples, although it's not the only love around...but I'm sorry to say that I have seen women here act like the worst dog satan, their curse it's like a body with a hollow shell filled with black shit flies...reeks of betrayal.