How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

[Man of Faith]

Peace,

The moral decay "in the West" has "just" been going on for about a 100 years, before that it was common that people married and spent the life together. My grandparents on both sides spent their whole lives together until death came to them. The major decay started in the 1960's-70's as far as my own observation goes in my own country of origin, Sweden. Along the lines the church was also separated from the state and the church had lost most of their influence over the last decades before this happened.

I am sure the religious Faith had dramatically subsided by the end of the 19 and 20's century. It is a seemingly unstoppable chain reaction which has started.

It is the cultural and tight connection to religion which has spared the "East" from this decay, and that these countries have not developed as far as the "West". The moral decay has already started in the "East" for your information. I have only information from Iran in my case, but young people have boy/girlfriends and they dress in challenging ways and they want the Western loose style.

It seems inevitable that we are going into this decay, I think it will be even worse soon. Shaytaan has an easier time with His propaganda now that we can so easily keep informed and in contact with people.

Without a new Messenger the human race will not be able to return to this harmonious past with loving families and what was good. But at least the positive aspects are that abuse comes into the Light now and women are not mistreated to that extent these days.

Mankind will have to rethink their ways, which I doubt the majority will do since God has said the majority of humans are misguided.

There is too much freedom and carelessness in the minds of people. People do not care about modesty or responsibility or anything. It is chaos!

Sorry I got a bit over-dramatized. Well, I am sure most of you will understand what I was getting at.

God bless you

[Sonny]

Peace,

The moral decay "in the West" has "just" been going on for about a 100 years, before that it was common that people married and spent the life together. My grandparents on both sides spent their whole lives together until death came to them. The major decay started in the 1960's-70's as far as my own observation goes in my own country of origin, Sweden. Along the lines the church was also separated from the state and the church had lost most of their influence over the last decades before this happened.

I am sure the religious Faith had dramatically subsided by the end of the 19 and 20's century. It is a seemingly unstoppable chain reaction which has started.

It is the cultural and tight connection to religion which has spared the "East" from this decay, and that these countries have not developed as far as the "West". The moral decay has already started in the "East" for your information. I have only information from Iran in my case, but young people have boy/girlfriends and they dress in challenging ways and they want the Western loose style.

It seems inevitable that we are going into this decay, I think it will be even worse soon. Shaytaan has an easier time with His propaganda now that we can so easily keep informed and in contact with people.

Without a new Messenger the human race will not be able to return to this harmonious past with loving families and what was good. But at least the positive aspects are that abuse comes into the Light now and women are not mistreated to that extent these days.

Mankind will have to rethink their ways, which I doubt the majority will do since God has said the majority of humans are misguided.

There is too much freedom and carelessness in the minds of people. People do not care about modesty or responsibility or anything. It is chaos!

Sorry I got a bit over-dramatized. Well, I am sure most of you will understand what I was getting at.

God bless you

I think you said everything people need to know. I agree with every word brother 
This topic can be locked now 

[KTHRN]

Mankind will have to rethink their ways, which I doubt the majority will do since God has said the majority of humans are misguided.

There is too much freedom and carelessness in the minds of people. People do not care about modesty or responsibility or anything. It is chaos!

I agree so much. It's not a problem of (lack of) religious state control, which is horrible in it's own right.    Even if there is honest intent to guide people on a straight moral path, only God can truly wield that power over His creatures and He has chose NOT to make faith obligatory. It's a problem of personal control. Everyone knows, deep down, what is right and what is not. We just don't want to do the right thing, we have no personal honour, strength and resolve. We can only change ourselves from that self-indulging weakness and then let in God, no one else, to lead us on a better path.

Let's ourselves, try to pass that test then? And hope our wild young people in East and West will one day find the strength to kick Shaytan out of their doorsteps.

[es]

I wish this thread could be condensed. I've read bits on between, but it's going to take me forever reading it from start to finish. There's so many interesting points being made throughout , it will probably be impossible to do. If it ever concludes, a summary would be nice.

[IAMOP]

This moral depravity has ALWAYS been around with man.


Who went into the whorehouse under the covers of the dark night! Assuredly, a long queue of very pure people!

It is today, that we are seeing

#1 - High population, meaning many many times more occurences of any incident despite the exact same % rate, thus giving the impression it is very common
#2 - Enhanced communication

With the latter, this is the problem. The lost, they seek the lost. They wander around blindly. Looking for "true love", something they were told is here by Disney.



They are not looking for faith in their partners. They have no idea what faith is. They have no idea how to discern.

For instance, if a girl wears a low-cut top, I have struck her off my list of potentials long long before I even see her in person. And I almost definitely will not talk to her. Or be friends with her or share reality with her in any way. It's got nothing to do with the top itself... I wouldn't give two shits if my partner wore one. But behind this, there is an idea in the mind. And this idea in the mind, while boobs may be very pretty, this idea is uglier than the smelliest of poop, if only you could behold it with form!


Yet when you delve into this girl's world... every day she will get like 5-20 messages from clueless rabidly horny grown boys (definitely not worthy of being called men, even if they are 45). They hang off her every word, and worship her. Of course really they are worshipping the obelisk between their own legs and they see her as a temple to fulfill their rites, their Makkah, their Hajj.


Many other signs. Ironically one sign, is narcissism. Having a trail of 5-20 or more boys who follow her and give her attention. She laps it up because she feels incomplete and even though she is incomplete, at least her ego derives transient fulfillment. A God-shaped hole in the soul.

Then also, girls who get drunk and lose themselves, I have nothing more to say here. I will not look twice at a girl who gets drunk and this is coming from someone who has explored the entire spectrum of chemical alteration, very rich words coming from myself! And I can say these words because I know what's up.



All in all from my observations it seems that most of the male/female sexually available populace has not grown beyond mere "drink water, eat food, poop, ejaculate" level conditioning. They do not possess higher insight, nor purpose. Consequently relations with such people will be fruitless. With the girls, expect a loose whore or a diva. With the guys, it will be a pathetic pushover who worships the girl's feet or a player who will use her like a ragdoll and throw her to the side, covered in fluids. Apologies for the crude depictions: THIS is the reality of the "western" world. What to say about these poor men who marry a girl, who has a fetish for being used and abused? I have heard many many many depraved stories and I think if I related any to you, I would give this whole forum HIV or something, I don't really like thinking about them in case I spontaneously develop AIDS, syphilis, etc all at once.



And worst of all... this is God's way of punishing the imbeciles. You see, billions of years of evolution has led to every single woman, no matter how pure, having a very strong tendency towards men who have the ability to play girls and get lots of them. This is instinctive, this is primal, this cannot be overturned. No matter how pure and innocent a women, this is the very way the female of the species is hard-wired. However, purity => discernment. A pure woman who knows why she is here and which God she is here to serve cannot be led by this instinct.

But as soon as that purity slips, the emotions take over. The woman has signed her own death note. She will forever magically find herself more and more attracted to the men who will make her life a living hell. She will lap up the highs but at the end when she is old and wrinky and looks back and sees nothing but endless suffering, regret then shall she know that she rightfully earned the punishment of God. There is a similar such phenomenon of punishment decreed for men too, but it's a bit more nuanced and intricate. Rabidly horny men are of two parties; one party is abased and supports the diva/whore personality financially and may even raise children that are not his and the other party is sexually fulfilled (the players) but perpetually chases saltwater, never ever recieves gratification.



It all comes down to this
[24:3] The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.

[24:26] Bad women are for bad men and bad men are for bad women. Good women are for good men and good men are for good women


In the words of God himself! What more to say!

[Earthdom]

BOOM.
This thread could have ended here, on page two. It's still being referred to though, by a person in the "Muslims who follow Quran alone" facebook group (recommended!), as 'proof' that sex outside of marriage is allowed.

Shaking my head at this, honestly.

I know who is the person who "claim sex outside marriage is allowed" in facebook group, you may know who uttered that statement too Katharina because  I ever get discussion with him

After reading some of his statement in that facebook group, it's very clear if he intepretate the Quran not in literal text instead using his own reasoning and desire.

I'm afraid if you follow his advice.

Salaam

[Man of Faith]

Peace,

It depends on how you should interpret "what your right hand possesses". Sex without intention to stay with the person in question is not ideal. Sex without love and only for your desires seems quite shallow, irresponsible.

Other than that, it feels a bit demoralizing to have sex with a previously touched woman, at least if she had a lot of lovers before. If she had a reason to be divorced or widowed, it is okay, but a girl who has a lot of one night stands is a bit semi-disgusting.

Guard your private parts means to not let your wife down by "cheating" on her and I doubt it should be interpreted as no sex before marriage. Any sensible God-fearing man or young man should see that following your vain desires and especially wild sex lives rhyme poorly with a righteous life.

The bond between man and woman is meant to be and it is no temporary joy, simple reading and understanding of Quran reveals that. Yet love is a complicated thing and often imagined, man-made and it is rather a rush of hormones and nothing more. Bonding has more to do with intelligence and commitment. The bond is built on commitment and habits and having a partner for life who is there for you. That is what I believe is the fundament of a marriage, and why so many marriages break apart because they treat it as it should not be treated. It may be part of one's trial, wherefore most people fail because they had no Faith in the first place.

And to those who had to divorce out of mistreatment or violence there is no blame on them. There it can be a trial to get away from your Satan-possessed partner. But best is to reconcile.

We have to remember that your partner is probably the one you are going to spend your time in Paradise with, if she is worthy and a good Believer. Otherwise it is better to stay single for your life if that is not your intention. If s/he fails to get to Paradise you will be compensated with a new one, rest assured.

God bless you

[Leyna]

Without a new Messenger the human race will not be able to return to this harmonious past with loving families and what was good.

I don't think there ever was a harmonious past with loving families. Until recently, marriage had nothing to with love at all.

In early Muslim societies men could have sex with female slaves, even without their consent, and regardless of whether their wives agreed or not. Also, the concept of the wife's consent to marital sex was unheard of. This supposedly harmounious past is nothing but an illusion.

[Leyna]

All in all from my observations it seems that most of the male/female sexually available populace has not grown beyond mere "drink water, eat food, poop, ejaculate" level conditioning. They do not possess higher insight, nor purpose. Consequently relations with such people will be fruitless. With the girls, expect a loose whore or a diva. With the guys, it will be a pathetic pushover who worships the girl's feet or a player who will use her like a ragdoll and throw her to the side, covered in fluids. Apologies for the crude depictions: THIS is the reality of the "western" world.

This can be observed allover the world, it is not a "Western" phenomenon. In fact, restrictive social norms which usually foster a double standard make it much easier for men to "throw a woman to the side" after they are done with her.

You see, billions of years of evolution has led to every single woman, no matter how pure, having a very strong tendency towards men who have the ability to play girls and get lots of them. This is instinctive, this is primal, this cannot be overturned. No matter how pure and innocent a women, this is the very way the female of the species is hard-wired.

Obviously I'm not a member of the female species since I seem to be lacking this "instinctive" and "primal" desire for a man like that. 

[Man of Faith]

Peace Leyna,

I did not talk about abusive relationships, they have always existed. And love is relative, we cannot always feel that childish love if we are not very blessed I think. I think marriages are more about commitment and responsibility than love when we grow in years together.

This nuclear family commitment is what I feel is gone. Like I said that my grandparents lived together their whole lives.

God bless you