Having relationships before marriage not compatible with quran?

[David_K]

Salaam,

Don't lose hope yet! I'm one of the few women who prefers mental relationship than physical one before marriage. I think my ideal way of 'dating' is having discussions on our beliefs, views, future etc etc, than getting all touchy and smoochy.

That being said, I'm currently in relationship with a Sunni guy (no touching is involved since it's LDR) and I don't think it's going anywhere...

Salam BornAgain

I don't think i will loose hope yet. I believe that patience is the key to all forms of success. And when i look at my acquintances who lives in the capital of the country i live in, those of them who rushed into relationships or marriages are not happy today. That's because they settled down for the first girl or boy they met. I could never imagine to get married just to get married so that i will not be alone. Not a good idea. However, i guess when most people get to know someone, their feelings and the temporary pleasure they experience cloud their reason, and it seems like the right thing to do is to get married. But afterwards they will regret, but then its too late. Both of them will be unhappy, and it will be impossible to turn back the hands of time.

I have high standards. I believe that it's not a good idea to get to know anyone who does not have the belief system, the character traits and the values we look for in a partner. I don't want to settle down for the first and most available woman i find just to satisfy the ego or show people that i am commited. I believe that the best things in life should be waited for, even if it takes a long time. The things which comes fast in our life, can only give us temporarily satisfaction. It don't give us anything lasting, and it is not the happiness we want wholehearted.

Last year, a beautiful moroccoan girl and a spanish girl liked me, but i rejected both of them. Beauty is not enough for me. A woman has to have more than that. If the moroccoan girl or the spanish girl came to me a couple of years ago, i would probably have dated them. That was because i used to see the world only through the window of materialism, just like most other people. But physical beauty is common and overrated. Maybe when people realize these things, they will be able to appreciate the true beauty in another person. I am talking about the beauty of a unique and strong personality. I'm glad the last 2 years i have been able to see beyound materialism and into the true beauty of women. Therefore, when i said that i have high standards, i never meant that i only accept girls that have the face of a super-model. Actually i would not even hesitate one second to reject such girls. I think most supermodels are superficial. There is nothing in them that impress me. What they do on stage is mostly arrogant show off. At least clowns make you laugh when they walk on the stage. lol.  

You can feel it deep inside your heart when you see a person that has true beauty. Beauty in my opinion is not only the physical. Beauty is the whole. I am talking about the overall beauty. Not just one part. Physical beauty is only one part of person. But when we look at beauty holistically, only then we can percept what true beauty is. I have talked with women that have so beautiful personalities that their inner beauty surpassed other women that physically were more beautiful than them. This has really opened my eyes to the reality of beauty. I am not exaggerating here. I am definitely not looking for the prettiest woman in the world. If she has the beliefs, character traits and values i look for in a woman, then i will accept her, and start getting to know her. But these women are rare. Especially in the country i live in. And there are no women near my age her that believe in God alone. The true soulmate seems hard to find. So i have not met a woman that understands me completely yet. A woman that can accept me for my beliefs and for who i am....the Real me. But maybe we are not supposed to be read like open books. I guess to know the real me, it will take many years before you can say that you truly know me. I have many sides in my personality, each side more interesting and exciting than the other. I want to find a girl that appreciates me for who i am. An intelligent girl that sees beyound the superfical qualities admired in our society.

I have seen lots of young girls and boys in our society telling their partners that they love eacother. But it's only lipservice. It's not true love. For example a guy meets a girl and they start a relationship with eachother. The guy has only known her girlfriend for a month, then one day, suddenly he tells her that he loves her. He tells her that it is true love. But then a couple of weeks later, the guy cheats on her. How on earth can the guy cheat on her girlfriend by getting to know another woman? Cheating is hate, and hate cannot exist in true love. So when the guy tells her girfriend that he truly loves her, it's totally dishonest and false. And he knows that, but somehow everyone are fooled to believe that what this guy is telling is the truth, and that the boy and the girl have had true love. but the truth is that it was never true love in the first place.

In my opinion, true love is not the love you find in hollywood or fairy tales. When i say true love, i really mean true love. I am talking about the kind of love that is so strong that people would sacrifice their lives for eachother. A love based on give and take. Not based on satisfying only your own selfish desires or wishes. I once heard a beautiful story about a man that had a wife that had an accident and she became handicapped. Most people would probably leave their husband or wife if they became disabled. But the man didn't leave her. He stayed by her side and supported her. His love for her did not disappear. It did not vanish. I think their love even grew stronger. Why? because it was true love. Just like the love of Romeo and juliet. Romeo and juliet didn't leave eachother no matter what happened. In true love people will stay with eachother to the end.  

As i said earlier, i don't think i will loose hope yet. But to be honest, the future does not always seem bright. When i look around me, i see lots of good girls, however, they don't appeal to me. Where all the unique women hiding? Where are the real women? I am talking about the intelligent girls, those with the character traits and values i look for.

I swear, i have never met a girl in the country i live in that says she is interested in philosophy, mysteries or the deeper meanings of life. Most girls i have talked to in the country i live in only seem to care about superficial stuff like celebrities, nightclubs, and television programs. Celebrities, parties and nightclubs are meaningless. For example, if you visit the house of a girl, and she shows you her room, you will never see a poster of a philosopher. You will always see a poster of brad pit or some other celebrity, pimp or player.You will never see a poster of a philosopher, even dough he contributes the most to our society. And that is fact for sure.  By the way, i have nothing against brad pit, and actually think some of his movies are okey, but i don't think most of his movies has contributed much to the society. That's because most celebrities don't make movies that contribute to the society, they only make movies that contribute to their pockets and the movie industry. Therefore, to be honest i don't think that mainstream celebrities are good role models for 17 or 18 year old girls. When i was 17-18, all my friends which were girls always had posters of either celebrities or artists in their rooms. I think it is because most girls don't care about philosophers, and they absolutely don't care about scientists. Even dough the philosophers and scientists are those who contributed the most to humanity as i mentioned above. Imagine a room of a girl with a poster of Martin luther king or Einstein. haha. All her friends would probably think she is is weird if she had such a poster in her room. That's because we live in a upside-down world, where everything meaningless and worthless is seen as meaningful and worthy, while everything meaningful and worthy is seen as meaningless and worthless.


Boys are no better than girls. They are even worse. I can not even imagine how hopeless girls feel when they see all this immature boys around them. I feel sad for girls that have to choose between these boys. Most boys i have talked to only seem to care about superficial stuff like cars, beer, television and sports. They will support their favorite soccer player day and night, religiously. Even dough the soccer player they like don't care about them, not in the least. If somebody supported a soccer player and visited every one of his matches for 20 years, still he would never sit down and have a chat with his fan, not even for 10 minutes. The soccer player would probably say that he can't talk because he don't have time. I'm busy he would say. The soccer player always loves his fans and never wants their money (hint).....the last sentence was ironical And i doubt that he contributes much to the society. Some soccer players have huge mansions, private jets, and houses in italy or spain. Some of them get more than 10 million in salary. That's insane. People are programmed away from reality, therefore they believe its nothing wrong with getting 10 million dollar for shooting a ball from one side of field to the other. Actually it is very childhish to play soccer. Games are for children. In the soccer field, you often see 40 year old huge guys with beards running after balls. These men are living in the past. Sometimes i wonder if they still think they are children. They are attached to their fotball (Toys) just like children are attached to their toys. It's nonsense and crazy. It's nothing unique about shooting a ball. Even a 5 year old kid can shoot a ball And you know what is even more crazy? whats  more crazy is that people clap when the soccer players score a goal. They clap for something pointless. Something which waste there valuable time. You never see boys clapping for philosophers that made ingenious solutions for us. But people clap like madmen for shooting a ball, something which a 5 year old kid also can do. Most boys are no better than most girls. When they are 17-18, instead of having posters of celebrities, you see posters of their favorite soccer player. Soccer players are no better than most celebrities. And they sometimes call the soccer player their idol. It's nonsense. That's because we live in a upside-down world, where everything meaningless and worthless is seen as meaningful and worthy, while everything meaningful and worthy is seen as meaningless and worthless. Most boys just like most girls have the same lifestyle. Everything seems to evolve around them and their selfish desires. I sense no altruism and see little contribution in them. It's all about me, me, me almost all the time.  Most boys just like most girls are not interested in philosophy, mysteries or the deeper meanings of life. They don't care about religion (deen), they don't care about compassion and contribution. They really don't care about things which really matter. All they seem to care about is childish games and entertaining activities. Most boys don't care about philosophy, and they absolutely don't care about science. Even dough the philosophers and scientists are those who contributed the most to humanity. Imagine a room of a boy with a poster of malcolm x or aristoteles. lol. All his friends would probably think he is is nerd or weird if she had such posters in his room. I used to be among the popular people in my last school. But popularity is not always fair. The system of popularity divides people in to popular guys and nerds. They say: This group is the nerd group, that group is the popular group. that's nonsense. Popularity made me loosing clarity. It took some time for me to understand this, but now i really see the true face of this nonsense culture and the harm it can do. We are all brothers. Nerds, popular guys, the sport dudes, it's all bull****. I repeat: It's all bull****. It's hard enough being yourself in this society. People give eachother fake value based on man-made culture. But they are only fooling themselves. Because the truth is that: Only god can judge us. Nobody else has the right to give value to people or take their value based on meaningless stereotypes.

By the way, i have nothing against celebrities or television. I have many favorite movies, and one actor i like very much is Al pacino. So i am not saying all celebrities are bad. However, it is the culture and insanity that i am talking about when referring to the mistakes of most boys and girls.

When it comes to true love, i hope to experience this true love one day. I hope every sincere person will experience it. I believe true love is unconditional love. Where are all the unique women with a unique personality hiding? Where are the real women? Maybe it's just a fantasy, but i imagine a girl that is rational, real, truthful, moral, wants to know more about the deeper meanings of life. A girl that has clear principals and values. A girl that has goals. A girl that has interests and passions. A girl that wants to visit other countries and learn about other cultures. She is social and adventurous.  A girl that wants to contribute to the society, work in organizations. She wants to live for the akhiraat (Life after death). She off course wants to enjoy life, but in a purposeful way. Not in a meaningless way. A girl that put God first in her life. A girl that likes a guy for his ideas, his talents and his interests and passions. I want to find a girl that appreciates rationality and confidence in men. And sees beyound superficiality.

I hope this woman will contact me one day. I like to take initiative myself, but when i don't know where she is or where to look for her, there is no other choice than to wait. Perhaps she will take initiative. For me life is good, with or without a woman. And i am happy even dough i am single. I am not looking for somebody that can make my life complete. Or looking for my other half. My philosophy about love is deeper than that. I want to meet someone that also has a good life even dough she is single. She is not dependent on a guy to be successful. I want to find a companion that can walk by side, hand in hand. Not someone that can make my life complete, but someone that can supplement to my already good life.  She knows what she wants in life, and where she want to go. She speaks from the heart and has her own opinions. She challenges me to do the right things in life. We will be equal to eachother in all aspects. She will not be above me or below me. If i am prince, then she will be the princess.

I know that many things i wrote in this text became off-topic, but i thought it might be relevant to the discussion on this thread. Besides i like to write, and wanted to express myself today, so your answers gave me an opportunity for me to write a text If you have any comments to what i wrote, or want to share your opinions about similar topics which are relevant to this thread, feel free to write.

Peace and Respect,
David_k

[sarah_bd_gemini]

I swear, i have never met a girl in the country i live in that says she is interested in philosophy, mysteries or the deeper meanings of life. Most girls i have talked to in the country i live in only seem to care about superficial stuff like celebrities, nightclubs, and television programs. Celebrities, parties and nightclubs are meaningless. For example, if you visit the house of a girl, and she shows you her room, you will never see a poster of a philosopher. You will always see a poster of brad pit or some other celebrity, pimp or player.
You will never see a poster of a philosopher, even dough he contributes the most to our society. And that is fact for sure.  
By the way, i have nothing against brad pit, and actually think some of his movies are okey, but i don't think most of his movies has contributed much to the society. That's because most celebrities don't make movies that contribute to the society, they only make movies that contribute to their pockets and the movie industry. Therefore, to be honest i don't think that mainstream celebrities are good role models for 17 or 18 year old girls. When i was 17-18, all my friends which were girls always had posters of either celebrities or artists in their rooms. I think it is because most girls don't care about philosophers, and they absolutely don't care about scientists. Even dough the philosophers and scientists are those who contributed the most to humanity as i mentioned above. Imagine a room of a girl with a poster of Martin luther king or Einstein All her friends would probably think she is is weird if she had such a poster in her room. That's because we live in a upside-down world, where everything meaningless and worthless is seen as meaningful and worthy, while everything meaningful and worthy is seen as meaningless and worthless.

Peace David

are you sure you aren't looking at the wrong places?
Besides I would think it's weird if a girl had a picture of Martin Luther King Jr. or Socrates in her room. I would think she has no idea of what an attractive man should look like...

That's the reason some girls have pictures of Brad Pitt, Hugh Jackman etc. on their walls, same reason as some guys at my college have explicit pictures of certain kinds of "cough, cough" female entertainers "cough, cough"

A person who's intelligent and has a philosophical bent will have books and writings by great writers, not their pictures on their walls. Einstein is known for his brilliant theories, and not his looks.

And btw, both Einstein and Martin Luther King slept around like um... I'd better leave it unsaid.

They were definitely great leaders and pioneers for physics and civil rights, but they were horrid as husbands.

But anyway, don't lose hope.



Sarah

(I try not to. And btw, I don't have celebrity pics on my walls. Neither do most of my girl friends. The only pictures I have are nature scenes (I find them peaceful) and pictures of my mom and sister. The only pictures they have are artwork by different painters, and their own work, of course. So no, not all girls are superficial.)

[sarah_bd_gemini]

I once heard a beautiful story about a man that had a wife that had an accident and she became handicapped. Most people would probably leave their husband or wife if they became disabled. But the man didn't leave her. He stayed by her side and supported her. His love for her did not disappear. It did not vanish. I think their love even grew stronger. Why? because it was true love. Just like the love of Romeo and juliet. Romeo and juliet didn't leave eachother no matter what happened. In true love people will stay with eachother to the end. 

Romeo and Juliet were probably experience limerence 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

The true test of true love is time and challenges

I wonder if they would have lasted, considering how quick Romeo was in transferring his affections from Rosaline to Juliet

[sarah_bd_gemini]

Salaam,

I'm one of the few women who prefers mental relationship than physical one before marriage. I think my ideal way of 'dating' is having discussions on our beliefs, views, future etc etc, than getting all touchy and smoochy.

Not that few, it seems to me that there are fewer guys like that. 

[David_K]

Peace David

are you sure you aren't looking at the wrong places?
Besides I would think it's weird if a girl had a picture of Martin Luther King Jr. or Socrates in her room. I would think she has no idea of what an attractive man should look like...

That's the reason some girls have pictures of Brad Pitt, Hugh Jackman etc. on their walls, same reason as some guys at my college have explicit pictures of certain kinds of "cough, cough" female entertainers "cough, cough"

A person who's intelligent and has a philosophical bent will have books and writings by great writers, not their pictures on their walls. Einstein is known for his brilliant theories, and not his looks.

And btw, both Einstein and Martin Luther King slept around like um... I'd better leave it unsaid.

They were definitely great leaders and pioneers for physics and civil rights, but they were horrid as husbands.

But anyway, don't lose hope.



Sarah

(I try not to. And btw, I don't have celebrity pics on my walls. Neither do most of my girl friends. The only pictures I have are nature scenes (I find them peaceful) and pictures of my mom and sister. The only pictures they have are artwork by different painters, and their own work, of course. So no, not all girls are superficial.)

Peace Sarah

I am looking in the country i live in. I am a very social person and often talk to lots of people. But still i have not found any women that believe in God alone her. If a country where there lives more than 2 million people is a wrong place, then i have no idea where the right place is. Are you saying that i might not find the right woman in this country, even dough it lives more than 2 million people here? Or are you talking about places like for example, cafe, courses, yoga, at debates, or at the gym? Have you found the right one? And which places do you suggest i should look for the right one?

I guarantee that that my intention was not to promote posters of martin luther king or einstein, and i definitely do not work for any company that sell such posters. lol. just kidding. I actually thought you understood my point. Read between the lines. Do not read everything literally It was just an example thats shows us that most boys or most girls value wrong things in their life. Somebody who have a poster of a person, probably reads his books too. But i agree that posters of celebrities are pointless, and that an intelligent person would have books by the great writers instead.  I off course know why some girls have such posters on their wall. But i still think it is superficial. You are saying that they value the looks of the celebrities. Well, then they are superfical. They can not see beyound material values (materialism), and they don't see the true beauty of a person. Besides, they also have the posters of celebrities because of their social proof (illogical opinions of the majority based on superficiality). I think guys that have pictures of female entertainers are also superficial.

I think its great that you have pictures of nature and of your family. I also find such pictures beautiful.

Sarah, i never said that all girls are superficial. I said most girls. Read my text one more time if you missed the point, or show me where in the text i said all girls.

[David_K]

Not that few, it seems to me that there are fewer guys like that.  

Yes, in my country it seems that i am the only guy that prefer mental instead of physical in dating. But i don't care, cause i'm still the BOSS  

[David_K]

Hopefully there are many women that believe in mental dating in this forum. From my understanding of the Quran, this is the right way if two persons want to get to know eachother (dating). And if God says something, we have no other choice than to obey his law.

Some verses that are relevant to this thread:

Quran, 28:50
But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than he who follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people.

Quran, 59:9
And those who provided them with shelter, and were believers before them; they love those who immigrated to them, and they find no hesitation in their hearts in helping them, and they readily give them priority over themselves, even when they themselves need what they give away. Indeed, those who overcome their desires are the successful ones.

Quran, 45:18
Then We have established you on the path of things; so follow it and do not follow the desires of those who do not know

Quran 5:49
And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and many of the people are wicked.

[sarah_bd_gemini]

Peace Sarah

I am looking in the country i live in. I am a very social person and often talk to lots of people. But still i have not found any women that believe in God alone her. If a country where there lives more than 2 million people is a wrong place, then i have no idea where the right place is. Are you saying that i might not find the right woman in this country, even dough it lives more than 2 million people here? Or are you talking about places like for example, cafe, courses, yoga, at debates, or at the gym? Have you found the right one? And which places do you suggest i should look for the right one?

Peace David,

I am sorry if I offended you. But no one I know, would ever hang a poster of Martin Luther King or of Einstein, they might have their quotes on their walls, but not their pictures, unless you are referring to the famous "I have a dream" speech photo. I am not going to harp on that technicality, I was mostly joking when I said that anyway.

As for finding the right one, if my experience with friendship is any indicator, it's most likely to be where you can have an exchange of ideas, such as at high school/university etc. But even then, it's often quite random. I don't know what applies in your case, and honestly, I don't even know where I might find the right one in my case either.
Hence, I hope that God has such a chance meeting in store in my future, but I can never know for sure.

Sarah

[sarah_bd_gemini]

@ David
Great post though. There is so much wrong in the world, that sometimes I feel that the only way to see the good in the world is to focus on the few good things one sees/has and cherish them.

[SarahY]

Salam David,

Good that you still hope, what country are you from?

I think most people have high standards. In regards to your criteria i think you?re being a bit harsh on women even men but i guess maybe it?s just frustration.

Everyone i think is superficial to a certain extent. I mean if all you want is a philosophical women why not go for someone older who has interests or studies philosophy (if the younger ain?t good enough)? I guess because we have other wants such as: we want someone we?d be content with physically and mentally. Older women can be attractive too but then again it comes back to wants. Maybe you want children the likelihood of an older women having children is less likely. I gave the older women example because you?d assume as people age they gain more wisdom/knowledge etc. It?s not a definite or a given.

I don?t think it?s about women not caring about philosophers or science. People aren?t exposed to things the way maybe you are also people may have negative dispositions due to experience (or whatever reason). So when they look at things, they may not be as keen or proactive. People deserve to have a chance that requires time and patience even the right environment i.e. resources and support.  

People just wanna live and peoples understanding of living differs. If most of society tells women and men what they should be like. Most women/men will follow that discourses because well, it works. Essentially what do people want? Most people just want to live, be happy have children and someone to care about. Others want to make a difference and do something and achieve something. Besides that I think most people want someone they can be themselves around. The question is what does one want at the end of the day? Can it be achieved by marriage, do i need it for my marriage? Is it really someone who is so intelligent/philosophical? Can i fulfil this ?void? with peers through intellectual conversations or is this not enough.

I guess you have made it clear you want someone who is philosophical and your exposure to women has shown otherwise, shame. In regards to relationships i think it?s normal for people to want to know a person mentally before they even think about committed physical, otherwise i guess their intentions may be for other reasons. You said majority wouldn?t accept if you said you wanted just a mental dating. I disagree i think it?s the way you approach things. I think if you make your intention clear that you don?t intend on being physical because you want to see if you?re mentally compatible i don?t think people will have a problem with that. Especially if you explain why, it helps people understand.

What was your thoughts on MMA? Jacks link?