Author Topic: Was Moses in Egypt?????  (Read 37989 times)

hicham9

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #90 on: February 29, 2016, 08:36:44 AM »
I was not delivered in this world into defeat, nor does failure course my veins.
I'm not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion, and I refuse to talk, walk or sleep with the sheep.

HP_TECH

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #91 on: February 29, 2016, 09:41:49 AM »
Much obliged

God willing I'll start drawing again soon
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

mmkhan

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #92 on: February 29, 2016, 10:50:24 AM »
Here goes nothing Bro!

Actually a lot of these drawings were done way before I repented, so some are a bit on the dark side lol

http://postimg.org/gallery/2n2apwgbq/

Peace,

Nice drawings! :yes
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

HP_TECH

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #93 on: February 29, 2016, 01:25:46 PM »
Thanks mmkhan
But have you seen Hicham's they are amazing and his coloring!
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Hizbullah

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2016, 01:42:12 AM »
Salam

Quran;02:102 - And they followed what the devils had recited during the Kingdom of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah. And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But they certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.

The verse above tells us that people of Sulaiman, were the descendants of the preexilic people who follow Musa. They were the descendants of the Sumerian, who were fond of magic. The verse tells us that these people, their descendants were from Babylon, Mesopotamia!
Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

mmkhan

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2016, 12:11:40 PM »
Thanks mmkhan
But have you seen Hicham's they are amazing and his coloring!

Peace,

You are welcome bro.
Was that drawing by Hicham? It was amazing, mashaAllah. Really cool.
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

tutti_frutti

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2020, 08:39:07 AM »
Hello

I think moses was in egypt

Please see the following verse : “for you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said unto them, "Be as apes despicable!" - 2:65

For me it was clear that the “apes despicable” refer to what scientists claim to be the common ape ancestor of humans and apes. and the skeletons of these hominids were found in africa ... and the transgressors of the sanbath were told to be depised apes - so what scientists claim as common ancestors are actually transgressors of sabbath (Yhe God also says He left then as deterring punishment in chapter 2 verse 66)

Note how The God uses an adjective to describe the apes whilst in chapter 5 verse 60 The God does not use any adjectives ro describe the apes

Regarding the pharaoh, I think it could perhaps be akhenaton.

According to historians he did not have sons. His wife nefertiti was taken away from all records and lost to history (in the Quran The God tells us she asked to be separated from pharaoh and to be have a house built
in paradise so I am guessing she became a muslim). Also the city of amarna was totally forgotten and destroyed and The God tells us in Quran that He destroyed pharaoh’s works and buildings (surah 7 verse 137)
akhenaton was also a tyrant as he completely changed the religion in egypt and shut down many temples. he me tioned he was son of atun (please check the hymns) so it wasnt really a monotheistic religion.
the city he built amarna was also on the nile river

Please also google the first time the word pharaoh was used and results will come back either for akhenaton or during dynasty he ruled in

please also check this article :

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/was-pharaoh-akhenaten-so-cruel-he-forced-children-build-his-city-amarna-021429

my counter arguments:

pharaoh in Quran says rivers (plural) floweing beneath him whilst amarna had only the nile i think

pharaohs advisors mention that they believed what their fore fathers believed whilst akhenaton changed the religion (albeit perhaps he changed it after a long period)

archeologists say akhenaton ruled only 17 years (they could veeery well be wrong though)

other candidate cities include thonis-heraclion

those were just my thought maybe im wrong

for those who claim persia, i think persia was rather where david and solomon were and zoroastrianism was actually formed from what was sent to david, the Zabor

please share your thoughts :)

peace

huruf

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2020, 10:55:43 AM »
What the Qur'an says in the stories about Musa and Yusuf does not match Egypt even by far. Impossible.

Salaam 

tutti_frutti

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2020, 11:33:09 AM »
What the Qur'an says in the stories about Musa and Yusuf does not match Egypt even by far. Impossible.

Salaam 

please be more specific :) what exactly does the Quran say about Musa and Yusuf that does not fit egypt?

huruf

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #99 on: May 19, 2020, 03:16:10 AM »
Quote
please be more specific :) what exactly does the Quran say about Musa and Yusuf that does not fit egypt?



It took me a long time and effort some time ago to go through all this to my satisfaction. I can remember some specific things of it, but I would have to redo  again to be truly specific. However, I will mention some things of what I remember, but if it really interests you the best hing is that you check for yourself all the mentions and non mentions but related narration concerning it and get your own idea.

First: when you read the episodes of Yusuf and Musa you never are set in a complex, well established and extensive State as was ancient Egypt, particularly at the epoch at which are usually attributed the events with Musa and to a lesser degree with Yusuf.
The word Misr as a proper name is in fact given today to Egypt, but that Misr, or as pronnounced in Arabic, maSr, referred to the country Egypt, is in fact an extension of the name given to the capital, Cairo, proper name Al-Qahira, but which is rarely named so, but always referred to as MaSr. maSr is a common name which denotes the most important city in a land, If you say in Egypt or among egyptians that you are going or descending to maSr, it is Cairo.
That word in the Qur'an is that, the most important town in the land where a person named Fir3awn (arbitrarily transformed into Pharao) ruled at a certain time. It is not a title, but a proper name of a person (with its own meaning), and gramatically it is so handled in the Qur'an. The wife of this man, in the story of Musa is mentionned as So and So's wife and not as the wife of "the" so and so. It is the name of that particular person.
In the story of Yusuf, Yusuf is brought into maSr, the mos imortant town of the land, regardless of which the the land might be. And there he becomes an important servant of the lord of the place.

Later on, when his brothers intend to go back again to where Yusuf has become an important person, their father tells them to enter through different gates, not to enter all of them through the same gate. ¿Can you tell that speaking about a country, and a big country at that? You can only do that with a city or town, which indeed has gates.

Then at one point in the story of Musa, Fir3awn boasts about his importance and how the "rivers" flow underneath his palace. That gives the egyptian setting completely away. When, how did the rivers or streams run underneath any palace in Egypt? Someone mentionned the different branches of the Nile, but the branches of the Nile, never, never to any Egyptian would be streams or rivers, but THE RIVER. May be for a tourist it would be conceivable, but not for anybody not completely ignorant and least of all for an Egyptian.
And that is another thing, why, even when speaking long stretches about Yusuf's and Musa's life in maSr and supposing it were Egypt, never, not a single time a river, simply as river, in singular, and never, not a single time the name is given. Egypt is the Nile, why not mention the Nile. That is in itself an interesting question which might give many hints about the whole Qura'nic text itself.
In fact that boasting of Fir3awn, when we disentangle it from the Bible narrations and stick to the Qur'an only, what it suggests as to the the setting of this maSr is a city on high, and several streams running  it on the land below sorrounding it. May be a mountain setting.

Another one: when escape of the party that escaped with Musa and Haroon in the night was discovered, Fir3awn, the lord of maSr sent recruiters to gather a force to pursue the escaped, who, according to Fir3wan himself as he says in the Qur'an, were but a small party.
That cannot have happenned in Egypt. Would the King Ramses II, to whose kingship is attributed the episode, or any other king of Egypt for that matter, be in need to send recruiters to the towns in order to gather a force to pursue a party? As far as we know, there was no need for that. Egypt had an army, a professional army and, (proffessional police forces also), at that, very capable, and above all, like most everything in ancient Egypt at the time, extremely well organized.

And here comes the trap of taking other sources for the Qur'an, Qur'an does not write about particular proples but rather about events in settings where they can be presented as an illustration of moral and human behavours, for guidance, not for presenting ethnicities or separating peoples.

And it is so much so, that in the Qur'an we are told about the pepople of Musa and the people of the maSr, but we are not told which peoples were they. If you read carefully 28.14-21 you can see how many roundabouts does the text in order to avoid naming a particular people. Never are we given an ethnicity. Only translators mostly put it in, because, in good faith, I guess, think that that is what it means, but the Qur'an, neither there nor anywhere else takes any interest in assigning ethnicities at all. Rather presenting this lesson or that lesson anywhere to give with them universal guidance.

Better, if anybody and read Arabic, go to the original and examine it minutely, to discern what is said and what we assume, even when it is not said or when it is said someting completely different. Translators, unfortunately have already a setting for most or many of the passages of the Qur'an which they have learnt without noticing that they were pre-conditionning the Qur'an.

Not to forget also, that recording things of every tenor, was a parcicular strength of the ancient Egyptian civilisation, writings have been found by the million about anything, but one, merely one, is yet to be found which touches even far anything to do with these themes or "peoples" or characters in history.

Nothing like each one doing her or his own appreciation of Qur'an text, otherwise it may seem as if one is pretending to convince anybody of anything in particular, which is not the case. Nobody, that I know, gets a prcentage. So it is just a matter of wanting to get to the bottom of things.



Salaam