Author Topic: Was Moses in Egypt?????  (Read 34554 times)

herbman

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Was Moses in Egypt?????
« on: October 05, 2009, 08:29:01 AM »
Salam, Peace,

first of all some background on the subject:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598577.0

My research:

Majority has conclude that Moses story with Fir3awn was the story of Pharao in Masr (Egypt). 
Because
1- Biblical background
2- Misr is known today and in early time as Egypt
3- Pharao looks similar to Fir3awn

Xerxes

I strongly doubt this strory and as seen in the link some think it is Sargon. other Pharao and I think it is Xerxes (King of Persia) because:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerxes_I_of_Persia

Quran 89:10
And with Pharaoh, Lord of Stakes?

Quran 38:12
Before them (were many who) rejected messengers, the People of Noah, and `Ad, and Pharaoh, the Lord of Stakes.

God knows what a pyramid is and what a stake is!!!!

please see persepolis stakes/pillars:

http://www.hansrossel.com/fotos/fotografie/iran/ir_d5.htm

Also in Quran 66:11 Fir3awn's wife submitted to God, in the Bible there is a legend about Xerses wife helping children of Israel, her name judaised name is Esther.

But never found any story regarding Pharaoh's wife beeing submitted to God!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther

66:11
And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong";

Haman

Adding to that, this conversation between Fir3awn and Haman, in 28:38 see also Quran 40:24, 29:39,:

28:38
Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!"

Haman in the Bible is a vizir of Xerxes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman_(Bible)
Jewish know well about him because it was one of the greatest persecutor they had :"Haman and his wife Zeresh instigate a plot to kill all the Jews of ancient Persia"

the official sunni version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman_(Islam)

and finally, a scientic point of vieu about Moses and Exodus:

- no trace of big jewish community under Pharao
- no slavery under Pharao, people who build pyramids were free people
- no writen trace about Moses story, strangely egyptians were writing all accounting stuff
- to resume no archeological finding about hebrous in Egypt, only the Bible refer of it!!!
please see the following article on wiki, sorry it is available only in french try some web translator:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donn%C3%A9es_arch%C3%A9ologiques_sur_l%27Exode_et_Mo%C3%AFse

This was initiated because of verse in 17:1

argumenting that God's servant could be either Moses than Mohamed sws

Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque whose precincts We did bless― in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the one Who heareth and seeth (all things).


44:23 about Moses:

The reply came: "March forth with My servants by night: for ye are sure to be pursued

The same expression is used Isra.

The pending question is if verse 17:1 talks about Moses, what is then the Sacred Mosque and the Farthest Mosque?

Peace


nimnimak_11

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 08:48:14 PM »
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

herbman

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 02:03:36 AM »
Peace,

don't get me wrong I am not saying Moses story occured in Persia.
Xerses was rulling from Persia to Egypt including Babylon.  In fact, one of the places where the story could occured is Babylon.
here is a short summary from wiki:
"Under Cyrus and the subsequent Persian king Darius the Great, Babylon became the capital city of the 9th Satrapy (Babylonia in the south and Athura in the north), as well as a centre of learning and scientific advancement. In Achaemenid Persia, the ancient Babylonian arts of astronomy and mathematics were revitalised and flourished, and Babylonian scholars completed maps of constellations. The city was the administrative capital of the Persian Empire, the preeminent power of the then known world, and it played a vital part in the history of that region for over two centuries. Many important archaeological discoveries have been made that can provide a better understanding of that era.[11][12]"


example 1:

43:51
And Fir3awn proclaimed among his people, saying: "O my people! Does not the dominion of Misr belong to me, (witness) these streams flowing underneath my (palace)? What! see ye not then?

Both Egypt and Babylon has the criteria, in Egypt is the Nil stream and in Babylon the Tigris and Eufrate.
Misr see PRL: he made it (namely a town) a limit/boundary between two things, partition, barrier, limit, great town, Egypt

Both Babylon and Egypt can be elected as  Misr.

Example 2:

40:36-37
Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means

"The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the God of Moses; but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the Path; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition (for him).


This seem similar to the Babel Tower:
Look at the section Quran!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

Example 3:

7:137
And We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both East and West lands― whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride).

Are the Pyramids still standing? Yes
What about the buildings in Babylon?
Do you belive in God's word? Then 7:137 do not apply to Egypt and Pharaon!!!!!

Example 4:
Quran 28:1-14
The story of the baby lost in the river
please read Sigmund Freud book Moses and Monotheism, first time this story is told is in Babylon!

Example 4
Historical and archeological contradiction about cruxifiction in Egypt.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/crucifixion2.htm
here is the answer to that claim:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html#

also I highlight this:

"Crucifixion, an important method of capital punishment, particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Jews, Carthaginians, and Romans [was practiced] from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. Constantine the Great, the first Christian emperor, abolished it in the Roman Empire in AD 337, out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion. ... [The earliest recording of a crucifixion was] in 519 BC [when] Darius I, king of Persia, crucified 3,000 political opponents in Babylon."

Example 5
Quran 28:38
Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!"

baked bricks not used in Egypt for Royal constructions!
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/bricks2.htm


Peace

Ahmad Bilal

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 06:45:28 AM »
Peace,

I think you may be right. In light of these occurrances happening in Babylon, not Egypt, the Qur'aanic story makes perfect sense... This is definately something worth looking into. Thanks for the info...

Peace,

Ahmad
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

theNabster

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 07:53:34 AM »
Peace herbman,
thank you very much herbman for this piece of research,
this is what i call constructive sharing
it is worth writing a thesis on at the very least!
carry on please...
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

Phil

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 11:12:10 AM »
<snip>


This seem similar to the Babel Tower:
Look at the section Quran!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

<snip>


Is it possible that the above may have connection with the story as in Q105:3?   :-\
Waarsala AAalayhim tayran ababeela

Peace.

arista

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 10:28:26 PM »
Salam,

any connection with this research? http://www.jesus-kashmir-tomb.com/DNAProjectOutline.html (*see where moses and aaron grave are...)

afridi220

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 11:51:37 AM »
 :nope: Cannot digest this story even after eating a full bottle of hajmola digestive tablets.
Peace


People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered; forgive them anyway

Rami

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 12:13:55 PM »
:nope: Cannot digest this story even after eating a full bottle of hajmola digestive tablets.

As if you digested the original story.  :laugh:

Musa is an Assyrian name? and he had a SUMERIAN with him?

Interesting stuff.

theNabster

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Re: Was Moses in Egypt?????
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 01:43:13 PM »
peace herbman, all
more than interesting, will revolutionize the reading of the bible, and archaeologists can start to use better clues to dig for biblical evidence. now first question, where is the likely place for the crossing of the sea in this case?

As if you digested the original story.  :laugh:

Musa is an Assyrian name? and he had a SUMERIAN with him?

Interesting stuff.
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.