Sarkozy Says Burqas Are 'Not Welcome' in France

[Supernaut]

I do not think the burka falls under what you want or not to wear. You cannot walk in the street with your face completely covered and no one can know whether you are  man or a woman, while you can easily see others/ your prey!

You're making the mistake of assuming that everyone in a burka is a criminal. That's principally no different from assuming that every man who speaks Arabic and has a beard is a terrorist.

In England some criminals misused the hood to cover their facese and commit their crimes and even cctv cameras were useless, and ultimately the hoods were banned.

And that's wrong. Some Hip Hop kids like wearing hoods because they think hoods are cool. And CCTV cameras are useless whether or not people wear hoods. Statistics show that CCTV cameras are completely useless. They're also psychologically damaging and they're expensive and the money for CCTV cameras comes from taxes/extortion.

If a wman wants to interact with the society, why does she want to hide?

What if they don't want to interact with society? What if they have bad hair? What if their religion tells them to hide their hair? There are a zillion reasons why people choose to hide themselves. Hiding yourself isn't a crime. A burka or a hood doesn't make you a criminal.

How can she interact with the public when she is working? Would you be comfortable making transactions or being taught from (behind the veil)?

Is it a crime not to interact? If you don't like burkas, don't talk to someone who wears one. You don't have the right to force others to interact with you.

And if they are not working, what are they doing walking the streets? Their freedom stops at the steps of the right of others to see who they are dealing with.

That's ridiculous! You have no right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies. Any action that involves the violation of an individual's volition is wrong.

[Supernaut]

Yea, people should be able to wear or not wear what they choose but different societies stress their own rules.

Joe

And any society that has ridiculous laws also has ridiculous problems. I think the burka is completely ridiculous. It's also unhygienic, but I believe every individual has the right to do what they want with their body.

[Samia]

You're making the mistake of assuming that everyone in a burka is a criminal. That's principally no different from assuming that every man who speaks Arabic and has a beard is a terrorist.

I am not assuming they are criminals. I am assuming criminals can freely hide under a burka. Examples are many and I was on a tube in Egypt when the police was chasing two burka's and they turned out to be two men escaping prison. Their feet gave them in.

And that's wrong. Some Hip Hop kids like wearing hoods because they think hoods are cool. And CCTV cameras are useless whether or not people wear hoods. Statistics show that CCTV cameras are completely useless. They're also psychologically damaging and they're expensive and the money for CCTV cameras comes from taxes/extortion.

What if they don't want to interact with society? What if they have bad hair? What if their religion tells them to hide their hair? There are a zillion reasons why people choose to hide themselves. Hiding yourself isn't a crime. A burka or a hood doesn't make you a criminal.

I am not talking about hoods nor scarfs. I am talking about covering the face. No religion orders people to cover the face. If they do not want to interact with the society, it's their choice. No one will bother. But when they come to receive their benefits, the personnel have the right to see who is applying for the check. Unless they are rich enough and do not need work nor help from the state, no one will even notice them.

Is it a crime not to interact? If you don't like burkas, don't talk to someone who wears one. You don't have the right to force others to interact with you.

What's this nonesense? Where did i say it's a crime?  I am not talking about socialization either. I do talk to them and I did teach them, but in the exam, I had to see their faces to make sure it's them whom they claim. And this is even not what I am talking about. How about a teacher covering her face, e.g?

That's ridiculous! You have no right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies. Any action that involves the violation of an individual's volition is wrong.

I am not assuming any authority or right. If they do not want to interact with the society, as you said, it's fine. I also have the right to see the face of anyone dealing with me to know if they are truthful or just a fraud, and hear their real voice. I do not think I would enter in any serious dealings with someone coverng their face if I do not already know them

[salgan]

Peace all

The way to defeat the burka brigade is through education and open debate not by instilling laws that are there to curb your freedom of choice.

Sarkozy is the french version of Tony blair a self publisist who is in love with the idea of freedom but is as fanatical as the islamo fasist mullahs of islam.

Peace salim

live long and prosper

[Bigmo]

The Burka and hijab are semitic traditions. Mary had one and so did many women of the middle eastern traditions.

They should not be banned except for security purposes and on occasions. i am against this Sarkozy guy. now the Saudis and Iranians are going to use this to impose dress codes and justify that saying even France has one.

[progressive1993]

He is not the only European head of state against Turkey joining the EU, nor is he the first French president for that matter.

He is the staunchest. He says things like: "I have been opposed to Turkey's EU accession in the past and I remain opposed."

Jacques Chirac, for example, was way more open.

I think Greece is the one adamant about Turkey not joining the EU. Last time Cyprus was not allowed either, inspite of the majority of Greek cypriots: they intentionally voted against the EU so that Turkey wont have a chance through Cyprus.

Karamanlis, the current president of Greece is far more open then other Greek politicians (mostly nationalists, but also more moderate ones), Sarkozy, etc. just like his uncle or father (dont know exactly which one of his relatives).

On a side note: Why is Turkey so opssessed by joining the EU?

What do you mean with "Turkey"? The people? The ruling party? The other parties?
Clarify and I'll give you an answer.

[nsws1988]

I'm all for personal choice but how would you know if a lot of these women are wearing them by choice?

Does anyone remember this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

[Samia]

Mary had one

How do you know? Maybe she has maybe not

now the Saudis and Iranians are going to use this to impose dress codes and justify that saying even France has one.

They haven't yet ? They even impose it on photos on applications, and on every woman, irrespective of their faith!

[jankren]

As an Indonesian I say Burqas are not welcome in Indonesia either.

Face veil is oppressive. It instills insecurity in the wearers.

[ayani]

well...

if a Sunni woman *wants* to wear a burqa or niqaab, should she be asked not to by other Muslims?

apart from Islam, i see the point about discrimination being key in this debate. at the same time, you could argue that if Afghanistan's Taliban leaders can force women to wear a covering in public, what's the issue with France forcing women not to?

a woman who doesn't want to wear conservative Sunni garb doesn't have to live in a conservative Sunni theocracy. likewise, a Muslim woman who wants to wear a burqa doesn't have to live in an anti-religious ("secular") nation, either.

still, i say leave it up to the woman what to wear, or not wear.