Author Topic: Gelatin & Additives  (Read 7736 times)

WayFinder

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 04:12:12 PM »
The fat is 100% lawful. Are you suggesting that God does not know what to order when he says THE MEAT. Where is THE FAT prohibited? NOWHERE!

No contradiction WHATSOEVER. BTW: the trichine bacteria/virus stuff is IN THE MEAT NOT THE FAT.

http://www.quran-islam.org/159.html

Same for the bones and other stuff i mentioned above... Its nowhere stated they are unlawful... Another point you did not answer regarding the brains!  Brain is not flesh... Its fatty and jello...

You did contradict yourself because you said FAT 100% ok and BRAIN to be haraam!  BTW... are you sure flesh meat is forbidden just because the trichine bacteria?  Can there be other factors as well?? Of course yes.. But the full reasons rest with Allah and is undisclosed...

Was about to say it but nsws1988 said it... Gelatin is mainly made from bones.

So, if you are convince (since u say 100%) that ONLY flesh of pig is haraam, then i guess you should find no problem eating the UN-MENTIONED stuff in pigs.

Also, pay attention to the replies well before you answer back... I will never suggest that God does not know what he does...

The fact that God did not made us to be robots, and gave us a wonderful mind and made us into intelligent beings... He is always wanting us to use this great gift... And what you are doing is, sticking to the text and leaving the intellect behind.


3:7 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

progressive1993

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2009, 07:07:52 AM »
Same for the bones and other stuff i mentioned above... Its nowhere stated they are unlawful... Another point you did not answer regarding the brains!  Brain is not flesh... Its fatty and jello...

You did contradict yourself because you said FAT 100% ok and BRAIN to be haraam!  BTW... are you sure flesh meat is forbidden just because the trichine bacteria?  Can there be other factors as well?? Of course yes.. But the full reasons rest with Allah and is undisclosed...

Was about to say it but nsws1988 said it... Gelatin is mainly made from bones.

So, if you are convince (since u say 100%) that ONLY flesh of pig is haraam, then i guess you should find no problem eating the UN-MENTIONED stuff in pigs.

Also, pay attention to the replies well before you answer back... I will never suggest that God does not know what he does...

The fact that God did not made us to be robots, and gave us a wonderful mind and made us into intelligent beings... He is always wanting us to use this great gift... And what you are doing is, sticking to the text and leaving the intellect behind.


What's up with you?

1. I am not leaving the intellect behind.
Go see what Christians do - they eat pork. Now use your "intellect" and you will see that they are fine and healthy and then you would say "I guess pork is healthy and not toxic, so i'll eat it". Well, you see, you have to look at the text.

2. I am not obliged to answer your questions. I gave you some of my opinions. Whether you accept them or not is your choice. But don't tell me that I HAVE to answer your question or that what I said is wrong, etc.

Eat what you want. Look at the Quran. If you dont believe me, then thats not my problem. Go ahead and eat the brain, etc. but dont say that I didnt warn you!


Peace
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

MUNZIR ALI

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2009, 10:04:06 AM »
IS BLOOD OF THE PIGS HARAAM?

progressive1993

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2009, 10:10:09 AM »
IS BLOOD OF THE PIGS HARAAM?

Of course. Remember, blood in general is haram.
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

MUNZIR ALI

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2009, 10:47:43 AM »

Of course. Remember, blood in general is haram.
[/quote]Even cooked Blood?

Ahmad Bilal

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2009, 07:02:29 AM »
Peace,

I partially agree with Progressive on this one... The meat (flesh) of pigs is the only thing specifically forbidden in the scripture, and we shouldn't declare anything "haraam" unless G-d specifically forbade it. Therefore, if someone wants to eat the fat, the bones, or even the brains of a pig, it's that person's choice; it's not unlawful to do so. The only thing forbidden is the flesh...
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

SwedenMajidah

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2009, 09:13:28 AM »
Peace,

I partially agree with Progressive on this one... The meat (flesh) of pigs is the only thing specifically forbidden in the scripture, and we shouldn't declare anything "haraam" unless G-d specifically forbade it. Therefore, if someone wants to eat the fat, the bones, or even the brains of a pig, it's that person's choice; it's not unlawful to do so. The only thing forbidden is the flesh...

Well the blood too are forbidden...

Maria

progressive1993

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2009, 09:21:12 AM »
Of course. Remember, blood in general is haram.
Even cooked Blood?

If there is blood in the meat, that is fine. But not pure, running blood. When I say that the blood is forbidden, I mean running blodd which you can put in a glass jar and cook.

Peace
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

WayFinder

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2009, 02:31:27 PM »
What's up with you?

1. I am not leaving the intellect behind.
Go see what Christians do - they eat pork. Now use your "intellect" and you will see that they are fine and healthy and then you would say "I guess pork is healthy and not toxic, so i'll eat it". Well, you see, you have to look at the text.

2. I am not obliged to answer your questions. I gave you some of my opinions. Whether you accept them or not is your choice. But don't tell me that I HAVE to answer your question or that what I said is wrong, etc.

Eat what you want. Look at the Quran. If you dont believe me, then thats not my problem. Go ahead and eat the brain, etc. but dont say that I didnt warn you!


Peace

Peace...

Now you made me very angry! LOL  ;D

1. I don't need to go and see the christians if they are fine or not... Evil is of 2 kinds, the apparent and clear one which everyone can see and the second is hidden... So maybe they seem healthy but they are not.  Also, we just had the swine flu outbreak, so time to re-think some stuff.

2.You are never obliged to answer and I never implied it that way. You are a participant as well as me.

You do not get my point at all.. I am not all guns at you.  A question is being asked and we are discussing on it, thats all...

ANYWAYS...

I got some clarification for you and everyone else, feel free to answer and discuss on it.

I think that LAHM (meat) as used in the Quran is not restricted to only the Flesh of the animal but it covers all the EATABLE stuff from the animal... That include bones, marrow, brain, tongue, fat etc....

Look at these verses.
Quote

وَأَمْدَدْنَاهُم بِفَاكِهَةٍ وَلَحْمٍ مِّمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ

And We shall bestow on them fruit and meat in abundance - whatever they may desire.52:22

وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِّمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ


and with the flesh of any fowl that they may desire.56:21

وَهُوَ الَّذِي سَخَّرَ الْبَحْرَ لِتَأْكُلُواْ مِنْهُ لَحْمًا طَرِيًّا وَتَسْتَخْرِجُواْ مِنْهُ حِلْيَةً تَلْبَسُونَهَا وَتَرَى الْفُلْكَ مَوَاخِرَ فِيهِ وَلِتَبْتَغُواْ مِن فَضْلِهِ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

And He it is who has made the sea subservient [to His laws], so that you might eat fresh meat from it, and take from it gems which you may wear. And on that [very sea] one sees  ships ploughing through the waves, so that you might [be able to] go forth in quest of some of His bounty, and thus have cause to be grateful [to Him] .16:14

In all these verses the word LAHM is used.

Let me talk on the first 2 verses, 52:22 and 56:21

The verses say that the any LAHM the people pf Paradise will desire, they will get it.  The question is, do we only eat pure flesh, or we eat flesh with some bones and so on. Infact, lots of people even dislike and hate to eat pure flesh and prefer to eat 'entre-cote', ribs surrounded with meat... Some people like to eat the legs, especially the marrow inside the bones, some people like the brain and so on... So, if such people get into Paradise, will they get just pure flesh when they desire to eat some fat or bones along?

The second verse talks about the flesh of birds... can flesh of birds not contain bones? Even the skin is left with the flesh most of the time as it is so thin.  Can you eat the chicken flesh only without the fat? impossible...

Now you can say that the stuff we will eat in Paradise will be different from the one we have here and we eat... However, there is a verse in Surah Baqarah which says that the food from Paradise will be similar to the ones we have and eat here.  Look 2:25

Now the third verse talks about fishes from the sea.. LAHM TWARIYAN means fresh meat.  Fresh meat here means the whole fish, with bones, fats and everything.  Its not 100% meat... even tough, the word LAHM is used to refer to fish.

To end up.

I will say that LAHM does not means only the flesh from the animal but all the other eatable parts. 

May Allah guide us

Peace

3:7 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

progressive1993

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Re: Gelatin & Additives
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2009, 11:57:07 AM »
Peace...

Now you made me very angry! LOL  ;D

1. I don't need to go and see the christians if they are fine or not... Evil is of 2 kinds, the apparent and clear one which everyone can see and the second is hidden... So maybe they seem healthy but they are not.  Also, we just had the swine flu outbreak, so time to re-think some stuff.

2.You are never obliged to answer and I never implied it that way. You are a participant as well as me.

You do not get my point at all.. I am not all guns at you.  A question is being asked and we are discussing on it, thats all...

ANYWAYS...

I got some clarification for you and everyone else, feel free to answer and discuss on it.

I think that LAHM (meat) as used in the Quran is not restricted to only the Flesh of the animal but it covers all the EATABLE stuff from the animal... That include bones, marrow, brain, tongue, fat etc....

Look at these verses.
In all these verses the word LAHM is used.

Let me talk on the first 2 verses, 52:22 and 56:21

The verses say that the any LAHM the people pf Paradise will desire, they will get it.  The question is, do we only eat pure flesh, or we eat flesh with some bones and so on. Infact, lots of people even dislike and hate to eat pure flesh and prefer to eat 'entre-cote', ribs surrounded with meat... Some people like to eat the legs, especially the marrow inside the bones, some people like the brain and so on... So, if such people get into Paradise, will they get just pure flesh when they desire to eat some fat or bones along?

The second verse talks about the flesh of birds... can flesh of birds not contain bones? Even the skin is left with the flesh most of the time as it is so thin.  Can you eat the chicken flesh only without the fat? impossible...

Now you can say that the stuff we will eat in Paradise will be different from the one we have here and we eat... However, there is a verse in Surah Baqarah which says that the food from Paradise will be similar to the ones we have and eat here.  Look 2:25

Now the third verse talks about fishes from the sea.. LAHM TWARIYAN means fresh meat.  Fresh meat here means the whole fish, with bones, fats and everything.  Its not 100% meat... even tough, the word LAHM is used to refer to fish.

To end up.

I will say that LAHM does not means only the flesh from the animal but all the other eatable parts. 

May Allah guide us

Peace



Peace

Lam-Ha-Miim = flesh/meat, to feed with flesh, skin/hide/cloth

Now we have to look at two very important verses in the Quran...

first of all this one:

6:145 Qul la ajidu feema oohiyailayya muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhuilla an yakoona maytatan aw daman masfoohan aw lahmakhinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun aw fisqan ohilla lighayri Allahibihi famani idturra ghayra baghin wala AAadinfa-inna rabbaka ghafoorun raheemun

6:145 Say, "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden for an eater except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate.

The second crucial verse is the following:

6:146 For those who are Jewish, We forbade all that have claws; and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.

Do you see how exact these prohibitions are?
So we can conclude the following:

1. The meat of pigs is forbidden (YES, this includes their brains)
2. The fat of pigs is lawful
3. As for bones, there might still be parts of the meat of the pigs on/inside them, so I'd stay away from those.

What do you guys think about gelatine?
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."