Author Topic: Question for Edip and Layth  (Read 1248 times)

progressive1993

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Question for Edip and Layth
« on: May 21, 2009, 03:38:36 PM »
Peace,

On www.quranix.net, I have read the translation of 11:114 of "Quran: A Reformist Translation". The endnote is:

Edip-Layth - End Note 12 (11:114)
In the Quranic Arabic, the word layl denotes the period from sunset to sunrise (2:187). The times of the evening and dawn prayers extend from the proximate edges of night to both ends of the day. The Quran provides detailed information about sala prayer. This verse refers to three sala prayers. Some students of the Quran understand five times rather than three times for contact prayers. However, as the detected and undetected influence of sectarian teachings and practices wanes with time, the disagreement on this issue may lead to a better understanding. See the Appendix Sala Prayer According to the Quran.


You say: "this verse refers to three salaat prayers". Yet, in the appendix, you right that 11:114 refers to 2 prayers.

Please clarify this.

Thanks
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

Edip Yuksel

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Re: Question for Edip and Layth
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 09:56:12 PM »
Peace,
On www.quranix.net, I have read the translation of 11:114 of "Quran: A Reformist Translation". The endnote is:

Edip-Layth - End Note 12 (11:114)
In the Quranic Arabic, the word layl denotes the period from sunset to sunrise (2:187). The times of the evening and dawn prayers extend from the proximate edges of night to both ends of the day. The Quran provides detailed information about sala prayer. This verse refers to three sala prayers. Some students of the Quran understand five times rather than three times for contact prayers. However, as the detected and undetected influence of sectarian teachings and practices wanes with time, the disagreement on this issue may lead to a better understanding. See the Appendix Sala Prayer According to the Quran.

You say: "this verse refers to three salaat prayers". Yet, in the appendix, you right that 11:114 refers to 2 prayers.

Please clarify this.Thanks

Dear Progressive1993:

As indicated in the beginning of the reformist translation, I am the sole author of endnotes and appendices... So, I am the one responsible for these contradictory remarks  :-[

Here is the story:

For the Reformist Translation of the Quran, I used the footnotes of my Turkish translation of the Quran and improved them by including extensive references to Bible and providing more detailed arguments for our position... As it is known, I used to believe in 5 prayers a day and I used to subscribe to the popular understanding of the verse 11:114.

When I re-evaluated the issue several years ago, and noticed that only three prayer names were mentioned in relation with time, I decided to choose the alternative meaning, which is discussed in the Appendix. Though I never claimed the popular understanding (that is verse 11:114 referring to three of the five prayers) to be wrong, I provided some reasons for why it should make more sense to prefer the alternative understanding.

In brief, while translating the footnotes from my Turkish translation, somehow I did not notice that such a comment was contradictory to my present understanding...

Thank you for pulling my attention to this obvious contradiction. I will inshallah make the necessary correction for the upcoming print.

Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

siki

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Re: Question for Edip and Layth
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 10:13:40 PM »
peace progressive,

I would like to clarify one of your statement here,

 
Quote from: progressive1993  ink=topic=9598317.msg201181#msg201181 date=1242945516

In the Quranic Arabic, the word layl denotes the period from sunset to sunrise (2:187).


After a long and thorough research , I am of the opinion that the usual understanding of quranic layal starting from sun set, is wrong.

The quranic layal starts with the darkness of the night which one could take any time 15 mins to 1 hours 30 mins( depends where you are on the globe) and definitely not at sun set. If you or any body wants, I can refer a thread for detailed understanding.

The overlapping periods  (first light to sun rise and sun set to last light) are referred as fajr and esha respectively, in quran

peace

siki

Wakas

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Re: Question for Edip and Layth
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 03:59:35 AM »
The Quranic evidence is clear for everyone to see. Quranic night/layl contains light (e.g. twilight), see 36:37. As discussed in significant detail in several threads, e.g.
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596792.msg179225#msg179225

EVERY long term active member of free-minds forum (as far as I am aware) agrees upon a minimum of two daily "salat". This is because these same people have discussed this topic in the most detail its ever been discussed in any forum in the world (if there is more detail anywhere else, please do let me know as I'd be interested in joining such a forum). People can make of this agreement what they wish.

I think the time has come to create a sticky thread which contains links to the most pertinent/detailed discussions of the forum, otherwise we will just get people repeating the same information/misinformation over and over again.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

progressive1993

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Re: Question for Edip and Layth
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2009, 04:15:22 AM »
peace progressive,

I would like to clarify one of your statement here,

 
After a long and thorough research , I am of the opinion that the usual understanding of quranic layal starting from sun set, is wrong.

The quranic layal starts with the darkness of the night which one could take any time 15 mins to 1 hours 30 mins( depends where you are on the globe) and definitely not at sun set. If you or any body wants, I can refer a thread for detailed understanding.

The overlapping periods  (first light to sun rise and sun set to last light) are referred as fajr and esha respectively, in quran

peace

siki


It is not me who said this, it was Edip in the footnote of "Quran: A Reformist Translation". I have quoted it. I myself however agree with the understanding that is displayed in the end note.

@ Edip

Thanks for clairifying/tesekk?rler


Selam
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."