Refute this... help and support needed

[WayFinder]

But im talking about you and me. where did we learn quranic arabic from? from books and teachers. Where do the books and teachers come from? authors and universities, so if you keep going back in time, you'll pass through the sahabas who had the best understanding of the quran, then if you keep going back in time, you will finally reach the first person who spoke arabic.

So this whole chain of knowledge consists of teachers, our forefathers, scholars and people of all times, the sahabas, the prophet until finally the people who first spoke arabic. So how u say now that you cant trust something that has already reached you? is the knowledge of ahadith any different from this chain?

Or do you mean that you got the knowledge of quranic arabic through some sort of inspiration or ecstasy? Wasn't there anyone who transmitted that knowledge to you? Who gets knowledge on his own?

[Wakas]

peace anna,

The Quran itself promotes considering information out with itself. This is FACT.

The Quran repeatedly emphasises the importance of seeking knowledge, verifying information, use of logic/reason, evidence, consultation, reflection/thinking, study of biology/creation/archaeology/history/sciences. Some of the many examples are shown below.

The Quran clearly states signs of the truth it promotes exist in the whole universe, thus surely all of it is worthy of study:

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things? [41:53]

Say: Travel in the earth and see how He originated the creation, then God creates the latter creation; surely God has power over all things. [29:20]

Many ways of life have passed away before your time. Go, then, about the earth and behold what happened in the end to those who gave the lie to the truth. [3:137]

In the creation of heavens and Earth, and the alternation between night and day, are signs for those with understanding.
Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder over the creation of the heavens and the Earth: ?Our Lord you did not create this without purpose...?
[3:190-191]


Promotes logical thinking and reasoning:

And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of heavens and Earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty. When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said: "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said: "I do not like those that disappear." So when he saw the moon rising, he said: "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said: "If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the misguided!" So when he saw the sun rising, he said: "This is my Lord, this is biggest." But when it disappeared he said: "My people, I am innocent of all that you associate with God." [6:75-79]

?And by God , I will scheme against your statues after you have gone away and given your backs.?
So he broke them into pieces except for the biggest of them, so that they may turn to him.
They said: ?Who has done this to our gods? He is surely one of the wicked.?
They said: ?We heard a young man mentioning them. He was called Abraham.?
They said: ?Bring him before the eyes of the people so that they may be witness.?
They said: ?Did you do this to our gods Abraham??
He said: ?It was the biggest one of them here who did it, so ask them, if they do speak!?
So they turned and said to themselves: ?It is indeed ourselves who have been wicked!?
Then they reverted to their old ideas: ?You know that they do not speak!?
He said: ?Do you serve besides God that which does not benefit you at all nor harm you??
?I am fed-up of you and to what you serve besides God! Do you not comprehend??
[21:57-67]

He cites an example for Us, while forgetting his own creation! He says: "Who can resurrect the bones while they are dust?"
Say, "The One who made them in the first place will resurrect them. He is fully aware of every creation."
[36:78-79]

If there were gods in them (heaven and earth) except for God, then they would have been ruined... [21:22]
God has not taken a son, nor is there with Him any god. If it were so, then every god would have taken what He created and they would have tried to overtake each other. God be glorified against what they describe! [23:91]

Did the news come to you of the person who debated with Abraham regarding his Lord, while God had given him a kingship? Abraham said: ?My Lord is the One who gives life and death,? he said: ?I bring life and death.? Abraham said: ?God brings the sun from the east, so you bring it from the west.? The one who disbelieved was confounded! And God does not guide the wicked people. [2:258]

In the story of Joseph, he was accused of molesting a female when it was really the other way around, and it was proven with evidence by way of reasoning:

He said: ?She is the one who seduced me from myself,? and a witness from her family gave testimony: ?If his shirt was torn from the front, then she is truthful, and he is the liar.?
?And if his shirt is torn from behind (i.e. as he tried to get away from her), then she is lying, and he is truthful.?
[12:26-27]

As is quite common in The Quran, it also gives us an example in this life to reflect upon:

...You sometimes see the earth dry and barren, but no sooner do We send down rain upon it than it begins to stir and swell, putting forth every kind of radiant bloom.
That is because God is the truth, and He gives life to the dead, and He is capable of all things. [22:5-6]

And Abraham said: ""My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead." He said, "Do you not already acknowledge?" He said, "I do, but to assure my heart. Said He: "Take, then, four birds and teach them to obey thee; then place them separately on every hill [around thee]; then summon them: they will come flying to thee. And know that God is Almighty, Wise. [2:260]

...?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.? [3:79]


Rejects following of tradition/culture/ancestors blindly:

And if they commit evil acts, they say: ?We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it.? Say: ?God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know?? [7:28]

If they are told, "Follow what God has sent down," they say, "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not reason much and were not guided? The example of those who are unappreciative is like the one who repeats what he has heard of calls and shouts; deaf, dumb, and blind; they do not reason.
[2:170-171]

And do not follow what you have no knowledge of; surely the hearing, the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that. [17:36]


Recommends group consultation:

Those who listen to what is said, then follow the best of it; those are the ones God has guided, and are the men of understanding. [39:18]

...and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs... [3:159]

O you who believe! when it is said to you, Make room in (your) assemblies, then make ample room, God will give you ample, and when it is said: Rise up, then rise up. God will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees; and God is Aware of what you do. [58:11]


Promotes thinking/reflection/reasoning:

Surely, the worst creatures in the sight of God are the deaf and dumb who do not reason. [8:22]

And they said: ?If we had listened or understood, we would not be among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!? [67:10]

...Relate the stories, perhaps they will think. [7:176]

...It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think. [10:24]

With proofs and scriptures. And We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think. [16:44]

Do they not reflect upon themselves? God did not create the heavens and the Earth and what is between them except by truth and an appointed term. But most of the people are in denial regarding their meeting with their Lord. [30:8]

And He committed in your service all that is in the heavens and in the Earth; all from Him. In that are signs for a people who reflect. [45:13]

...Say: ?Are those who know equal to those who do not know?? Only those who possess understanding will remember. [39:9]

?He has misled mountain loads of you: could you not, then, use your reason?? [36:62]

"Do you not then reflect?" [6:50]



Strongly disapproves of conjecture/guesswork, and promotes examination of evidence:

You who believe! If a troublemaker comes to you with a report, verify it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done. [49:6]

They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture/guess. [45:24]

If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. [6:116]

...And conjecture/guesswork is no substitute for the truth. [53:28]

...Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful. [2:111]

Or have they taken gods besides Him? Say: ?Bring your proof. This is a reminder of those with me and a reminder of those before me.? But, most of them do not know the truth, so they turn away. [21:24]


Esteems knowledge, education and learning:

And do not follow what you have no knowledge of; surely the hearing, the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that. [17:36]

And say: "My Lord increase me in knowledge." [20:114]

"Will they not ponder over the Quran?" [4:82]

And it is not advisable for the believers to mobilize in their entirety. For every battalion that marches out, let a group remain to study the system, and warn their people when they return to them, perhaps they will be aware. [9:122]

And from the people, and the animals, and the livestock, are various colours. As such, only the knowledgeable among God?s servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving. [35:28]

But those of them who are firm in knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you... [4:162]

Those who are blessed with knowledge will recognize the truth from your Lord, then believe in it, and their hearts will readily accept it. Most assuredly, GOD guides the believers in the right path. [22:54]

In fact, it is a clear revelation in the chests of those who have been given knowledge... [29:49]

etc.

[anna]

The Quran itself promotes considering information out with itself. This is FACT.

[raginggaijin]

peace anna,

The Quran itself promotes considering information out with itself. This is FACT.

Peace be unto you, brother,

The Quran promotes reading the Scriptures and Torah, using the Quran to verify the Truth, and abrogates rules from previous Books.

What the Quran says about the Torah and Gospel:
Surah 2:91, 2:99, 3:2-4, 3:184, 3:84, 4:136, 5:66-68, 6:154-155, 10:37, 12:111, 18:56, 28:48-49, 29:46-47, 42:15-16 

Please see the "Some Questions to Ask the Quran Only People" thread to view questions answered by the Quran and Quran alone.

It won't match the hadiths because the hadiths are from the deceiver, iblis, satan, to deter believers from the righteous path.

Quran only message of Muhammad (pbuh):
6:19, 50:45, 16:44, 16:64, 14:1, 6:155, 4:105, 18:27

Hadn't the Quran been reached to us from the same sources we received our authentic hadith?
Surah 2:87,97-99, 6:102, 26:192-193, 42:51,
The hadiths were not given by God by way of Gabriel to our Prophet (pbuh). They were given to us by men and women, supposedly followers of our Final Prophet (pbuh).

Believe or believe not. I am not a guardian.

Peace and blessings.

[1CELOSTNOWFOUND]

Peace all

It sems to me that the entire point of what "quran only" means may be misunderstood.

My opinion is that we look at the meaning of what the quran teaches by using tasreef & looking at its consitency with itself for the verification of its authenticity. The different connotations of words & their meanings are a non-issue since only those meanings which stand up to the consitency of the quran with itself & the natural laws of the universe stand the test of time space & all else. The rules of recitation have no bearing on anything regarding the message.

Also, it seems that there may be view that "quran only" implies the rejection of all other sources of knowledge & information. I think this would be a ridiculous stance. The better stance seems to me one which recognises that the quran is the only source of law & the system of deen. There are many books (including hadeeth literature) that teach good lessons that make sense & from which much can be learnt. The problem is that these books also contain many inconsistencies & quite frankly sometimes ridiculous concepts based on pure conjecture. The "quran only" concept only comes in to the picture regarding the revealed word of God that can be accepted as such due to its consistency with itself & the natural laws. Any other man-made book (including hadith literature) cannot & does not make the same claim of consistency & as such are only opinions of people, not the truth from God.

Imraan

[Samia]

Peace all

It sems to me that the entire point of what "quran only" means may be misunderstood.

My opinion is that we look at the meaning of what the quran teaches by using tasreef & looking at its consitency with itself for the verification of its authenticity. The different connotations of words & their meanings are a non-issue since only those meanings which stand up to the consitency of the quran with itself & the natural laws of the universe stand the test of time space & all else. The rules of recitation have no bearing on anything regarding the message.

Also, it seems that there may be view that "quran only" implies the rejection of all other sources of knowledge & information. I think this would be a ridiculous stance. The better stance seems to me one which recognises that the quran is the only source of law & the system of deen. There are many books (including hadeeth literature) that teach good lessons that make sense & from which much can be learnt. The problem is that these books also contain many inconsistencies & quite frankly sometimes ridiculous concepts based on pure conjecture. The "quran only" concept only comes in to the picture regarding the revealed word of God that can be accepted as such due to its consistency with itself & the natural laws. Any other man-made book (including hadith literature) cannot & does not make the same claim of consistency & as such are only opinions of people, not the truth from God.

Imraan

Well said Imraan. The undelined sentence is the meaning of quraan alone.

[Wakas]

Peace all

It sems to me that the entire point of what "quran only" means may be misunderstood.

It is misunderstood by some. This has been discussed in this forum in the past. For example, hardly any long term member uses the term "quran alone" as it is a misnomer. That is why the homepage of free-minds.org uses "God alone" for example.

I often use the term "Quran based islam" or similar. When "quran alone" is used it is meant as what you said for example "quran is the only source of law & the system of deen."

traditional hadith is just like any other bit of non-Quran info out there. Study it if you want, it isn't obligatory/fact/truth/divine though.

[drfazl]

Peace,

Quran alone people are the believers who stand steadfast in actual prayer as living example to "God alone suffices us" for He encompasses everything and the Knower of every secret and holds the key to the hidden treasures of the heavens and the earth and everything in between. Every source other than the Soul source is forbidden. "See in around you wherever you are, seeking guidance and increase in Knowledge from Me all the time as the only source" is the good tidings from Him. And this is Quran alone and Allah alone: for the Soul Searching!