A Question About Jinns

[Supernaut]

Ayman argued very convincingly that the Jinns are fantasies (creativity) in part 2 of his article titled "How Did It Come To This?", but I can't see how understanding Jinns as fantasies works in 34:14 which says:

34:14. So when We decreed on him death, nothing indicated to them his death except a mover of the earth eating his staff. So when he fell, it was revealed to the fantasies that had they known the hidden, they wouldn't have stayed in the degrading suffering.

Why did the fantasies learn of Solomon's death only after he fell to the ground? Shouldn't Solomon's brain activity have ceased the instant he died or shortly thereafter? How did they continue to undergo their suffering even after Solomon's death if they were indeed the creative part of his mind?

[afridi220]

Ayman argued very convincingly that the Jinns are fantasies (creativity) in part 2 of his article titled "How Did It Come To This?", but I can't see how understanding Jinns as fantasies works in 34:14 which says:

34:14. So when We decreed on him death, nothing indicated to them his death except a mover of the earth eating his staff. So when he fell, it was revealed to the fantasies that had they known the hidden, they wouldn't have stayed in the degrading suffering.

Why did the fantasies learn of Solomon's death only after he fell to the ground? Shouldn't Solomon's brain activity have ceased the instant he died or shortly thereafter? How did they continue to undergo their suffering even after Solomon's death if they were indeed the creative part of his mind?

Another freind said jinns are jews

[Ahmad Bilal]

Peace Supernaut,

Ayman argued very convincingly that the Jinns are fantasies (creativity) in part 2 of his article titled "How Did It Come To This?", but I can't see how understanding Jinns as fantasies works in 34:14 which says:

34:14. So when We decreed on him death, nothing indicated to them his death except a mover of the earth eating his staff. So when he fell, it was revealed to the fantasies that had they known the hidden, they wouldn't have stayed in the degrading suffering.

Why did the fantasies learn of Solomon's death only after he fell to the ground? Shouldn't Solomon's brain activity have ceased the instant he died or shortly thereafter? How did they continue to undergo their suffering even after Solomon's death if they were indeed the creative part of his mind?

There are only certain places where those meanings (i.e. "jinn"=fantasy) would actually fit. For example:

O you jinns and humans, did you not receive messengers from among you, who narrated to you My revelations, and warned you about the meeting of this day? They will say, "We bear witness against ourselves." They were totally preoccupied with the worldly life, and they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers. (6:130)

If jinn meant "fantasy", this would imply that our fantasies receive messengers from among the fantasies, and this is not logical.

We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He was/became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute! (18:50)

Satan is here described among the angels, and this makes it illogical for him to be a fantasy after the scripture verifies his reality. A real person can't be or become a fantasy.

No human ever touched them, nor a jinn. (55:74)

If jinns are simply fantasies, then this verse would be illogical, since fantasies can't physically touch anything or anyone. There are other examples as well that show the concept to be more logical if jinns were actually a separate group of people/separate species of beings, not imaginary creatures.

Peace,

Ahmad

[Supernaut]

Peace Ahmad Bilal,

Peace Supernaut,

There are only certain places where those meanings (i.e. "jinn"=fantasy) would actually fit. For example:

O you jinns and humans, did you not receive messengers from among you, who narrated to you My revelations, and warned you about the meeting of this day? They will say, "We bear witness against ourselves." They were totally preoccupied with the worldly life, and they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers. (6:130)

If jinn meant "fantasy", this would imply that our fantasies receive messengers from among the fantasies, and this is not logical.

You're right. I can't see how "Jinn" in 6:130 can be understood as "Fantasies".

We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He was/became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute! (18:50)

Satan is here described among the angels, and this makes it illogical for him to be a fantasy after the scripture verifies his reality. A real person can't be or become a fantasy.

Satan wasn't an angel; Satan was a controller (which is an accurate translation of Malaika).

No human ever touched them, nor a jinn. (55:74)

If jinns are simply fantasies, then this verse would be illogical, since fantasies can't physically touch anything or anyone. There are other examples as well that show the concept to be more logical if jinns were actually a separate group of people/separate species of beings, not imaginary creatures.

Peace,

Ahmad

Perhaps when the great reading says "No Jinn ever touched them", it means "The human mind can't grasp such a concept". You should read Ayman's article. You can read it at http://www.free-minds.org/ayman

[afridi220]

Peace Ahmad Bilal,

You're right. I can't see how "Jinn" in 6:130 can be understood as "Fantasies".

Satan wasn't an angel; Satan was a controller (which is an accurate translation of Malaika).

Perhaps when the great reading says "No Jinn ever touched them", it means "The human mind can't grasp such a concept". You should read Ayman's article. You can read it at http://www.free-minds.org/ayman

Fantasies".  that is Yousaf ali translation, i had A copy of Quran with yousaf ali translation i did not like it and then i left it in a mosque.

[WayFinder]

Peace

@Supernaut:

What does it mean to you when you say Satan was a controller?  He was a controller of what?

As for Jinns, it seem to be very clear from Al-Quran that they are creatures, which share some of our characteristics...  When we read Surah Al-Jinn, it says a group of Jinns were passing by and they heard the Quran being recited and they responded to it in a positive manner...  So they have the ability to hear, think and reflect, detect the truth and formulate an opinion on issues...  Same qualities that we have as humans...  However, we should always focus on the CLEAR verses and not try to force interpretation and see things which are not there...

May Allah guide us all...

Regards

[Muslimtruthrevealed]

Assalaam Alaikum

If you wish to understand who and where are the 'Jinn', just go to the Quran.....

[Al-Fajr 89.27] (To the righteous soul will be said.) "O /   Ya ayyatuha / يَا أَيَّتُهَا soul / an-nafsu / النَّفْسُ , in (complete) rest and satisfaction!

Who and What is Allah speaking to?


[Qaf 50.16] It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul [nafsuhu] makes to him. for We are nearer to him than the jugular vein.

[anna]

Assalaam Alaikum

If you wish to understand who and where are the 'Jinn', just go to the Quran.....

[Al-Fajr 89.27] (To the righteous soul will be said.) "O /   Ya ayyatuha / يَا أَيَّتُهَا soul / an-nafsu / النَّفْسُ , in (complete) rest and satisfaction!

Who and What is Allah speaking to?


[Qaf 50.16] It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul [nafsuhu] makes to him. for We are nearer to him than the jugular vein.

am i to understand that jinn in your mind is our black nafis, our own dark side. if it is, i must disagree for many people who have been in contact with them say otherwise,

[Muslimtruthrevealed]

Assalaam Alaikum @anna

Perhaps I was'nt clear....

[Al-Fajr 89.27] (To the righteous soul will be said.) "O /   Ya ayyatuha / يَا أَيَّتُهَا soul / an-nafsu / النَّفْسُ , in (complete) rest and satisfaction!

Who and What is Allah speaking to?

[anna]

Assalaam Alaikum @anna

Perhaps I was'nt clear....

[Al-Fajr 89.27] (To the righteous soul will be said.) "O /   Ya ayyatuha / يَا أَيَّتُهَا soul / an-nafsu / النَّفْسُ , in (complete) rest and satisfaction!

Who and What is Allah speaking to?

im sorry, i really dont know what you are trying to say , i have read the ayat before it and after it,what does our spirit our soul have anything to do with jinn