What Does The Word Makkah Mean?

[Alen]

Peace,
respectfully.

I have asked sheikh last night and i did not get all the answers but i did read an article long time ago and i discovered that the word Makkah means Destruction. Is this true? I'd appreciate the speedy response as well as correct translation and with proofs of course.

Thanks and God bless you.
Glory be to our God.
Peace.

[bkanwar2]

Good question.  I am not sure that current meaning were there in classic language.  Here is explanation from Lane.

Ba could be changed into Miim in the dialect of Mazin.  Hence it is actually بكة

See referance Lane page for Ba changing to Miim

http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000178.pdf

However, Bakkata means " He reprehended or reproached him for an affair or crime with justice or declared his deeds evil or threatened him.

See referance for Bakkata
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000276.pdf

Current meaning of word are well known.  Hope this helps.

Badar

[bkanwar2]

Just to expand further on this issue as to if really Lane's understading is right that in dialect of Mazin Ba changes to Miim.  Hence, Bakkata becomes Makkah.  Here is the evidence from Quran that these not one and same word.  Hence, what Lane understood was a later linguistic phenomenon/understanding.  Please see below two verses with both words.  Hence suggesting that Ba is not changable in Miim.

3:96 for Bakkah

إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

48:24 for Makkah

وَهُوَ الَّذِي كَفَّ أَيْدِيَهُمْ عَنكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ عَنْهُم بِبَطْنِ مَكَّةَ مِن
بَعْدِ أَنْ أَظْفَرَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرًا

Comments welcome.

Badar

[bkanwar2]

Furthermore, you would notice that the word in Lane under Bekkata is written as بكته.  Whereas in verse 48:24 it is written
as بِبَكَّةَ.  Are these same words?

Badar

[ayman]

Peace Alen,

Here is Yusuf Ali's modified translation of 48:24 using Classical Arabic dictionaries and the context of war from the verses to translate the common noun "makka":

48:24. And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

I used Yusuf Ali's translation but while he left "makka" un-translated, I didn't. As one can easily see, the clear classical Arabic meaning fits perfectly in the context of the military standoff in verse 48:24.

Peace,

Ayman

[herbman]

Peace Alen,

Here is Yusuf Ali's modified translation of 48:24 using Classical Arabic dictionaries and the context of war from the verses to translate the common noun "makka":

48:24. And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

I used Yusuf Ali's translation but while he left "makka" un-translated, I didn't. As one can easily see, the clear classical Arabic meaning fits perfectly in the context of the military standoff in verse 48:24.

Peace,

Ayman

Salam all,


I proposed the following translation, the answer is the following:

if makkata would mean destruction as you suggest, gramatically we should have :"bibatni makkatan" or "bibatni almakkati" following the rule.
Instead we have "bibatni makkata". The rule in arabic should be  "bibatni makkati" cause it is a moudaf ilayh. But we have here a mamnou3 minasarf then we do the nasb.

Please help

If sister Samia or someone else could help, you are welcome. Thanks

ps: eidkoum mubarak to all

[herbman]

Salam all,


I proposed the following translation, the answer is the following:

if makkata would mean destruction as you suggest, gramatically we should have :"bibatni makkatan" or "bibatni almakkati" following the rule.
Instead we have "bibatni makkata". The rule in arabic should be  "bibatni makkati" cause it is a moudaf ilayh. But we have here a mamnou3 minasarf then we do the nasb.

Please help

If sister Samia or someone else could help, you are welcome. Thanks

ps: eidkoum mubarak to all

I think I got it but need some someone to confirm:

Wahuwa allathee kaffa aydiyahum AAankum waaydiyakum AAanhum bibatni makkata min baAAdi an athfarakum AAalayhim wakana Allahu bima taAAmaloona baseeran



"bi batni makkata" is maf3ul bih then it is in nasb state but bibatni is force to have jara because of bi

is it correct or am I totally wrong?

[herbman]

I searched about this grammatical rule  الممنوع من الصرف :

and strangely Makkah is named in the rule to support this:

http://www.drmosad.com/index20.htm

also read the article from Anwar to explain this grammatical non-sens:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/quranists/message/9

wa salam

[ayman]

Peace Herbman,

I searched about this grammatical rule  الممنوع من الصرف :
and strangely Makkah is named in the rule to support this:
http://www.drmosad.com/index20.htm
also read the article from Anwar to explain this grammatical non-sens:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/quranists/message/9
wa salam

This post might help prove why the vocalization marks, specifically vocalization case endings, are a later addition by grammarians:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598276.msg201108#msg201108

Peace,

Ayman

[Alen]

Peace Alen,

Here is Yusuf Ali's modified translation of 48:24 using Classical Arabic dictionaries and the context of war from the verses to translate the common noun "makka":
48:24. And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
I used Yusuf Ali's translation but while he left "makka" un-translated, I didn't. As one can easily see, the clear classical Arabic meaning fits perfectly in the context of the military standoff in verse 48:24.
Peace,
Ayman

Peace,
Respectfully.

Thank you very much and may The Exalted God bless you, brother.
This will help me. AlhamdilAllah.

Peace.