3:79 vs 39:10, 39:53 Prophet's Slave/Worshippers

[loli]

Salam,

Is there a contradiction from the following verse

We learn from 3:79 that it is unlikely that a prophet have slaves

3:79 It was not to a human that God gives him The Book and the judgment/rule and the prophethood then he says to the people: "Be/become worshippers/slaves to me, from other than God". And but: "Be knowledgeable Lord worshippers with what you were teaching The Book and with what you were studying ".

then...

From these following verses, the prophet(who of course received The Book), is asked to address people as his slaves/worshipers[?]

39:10 Say: "You my worshippers/slaves those who believed, fear and obey your Lord, to those who did good in this the present world (is) a goodness/beauty, and God's earth/Planet Earth/land (is) spread/abundant , truly the patient are fulfilled/completed their reward without (an) account/calculation."

39:53 Say: "You my worshippers/slaves those who neglected/ignored on themselves, do not despair from God's mercy, that truly God forgives the crimes all/all together, that truly He is the forgiving, the merciful."

to who is 39:10 and 39:53 addressed to?

salam

[simple]

Salam,

Is there a contradiction from the following verse

We learn from 3:79 that it is unlikely that a prophet have slaves

3:79 It was not to a human that God gives him The Book and the judgment/rule and the prophethood then he says to the people: "Be/become worshippers/slaves to me, from other than God". And but: "Be knowledgeable Lord worshippers with what you were teaching The Book and with what you were studying ".

then...

From these following verses, the prophet(who of course received The Book), is asked to address people as his slaves/worshipers[?]

39:10 Say: "You my worshippers/slaves those who believed, fear and obey your Lord, to those who did good in this the present world (is) a goodness/beauty, and God's earth/Planet Earth/land (is) spread/abundant , truly the patient are fulfilled/completed their reward without (an) account/calculation."

39:53 Say: "You my worshippers/slaves those who neglected/ignored on themselves, do not despair from God's mercy, that truly God forgives the crimes all/all together, that truly He is the forgiving, the merciful."

to who is 39:10 and 39:53 addressed to?

salam

Salaams Loli,

the "My" in 39:10 shouldn't be their as it is the letter "Ya" that gives us the "My" in a word.

example

see the following Abaadi:

1.
[20:77] Walaqad awhayna ilamoosa an asri biAAibadee faidriblahum tareeqan fee albahri yabasan la takhafudarakan wala takhsha  ولقد اوحينا الي موسي ان اسر بعبادي فاضرب لهم طريقا في البحر يبسا لا تخاف دركا ولا تخشي
وَلَقَدْ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَى مُوسَى أَنْ أَسْرِ بِعِبَادِي فَاضْرِبْ لَهُمْ طَرِيقًا فِي الْبَحْرِ يَبَسًا لَّا تَخَافُ دَرَكًا وَلَا تَخْشَى
Tahir ul Qadri   اور بیشک ہم نے موسٰی (علیہ السلام) کی طرف وحی بھیجی کہ میرے بندوں کو راتوں رات لے کر نکل جاؤ، سو ان کے لئے دریا میں (اپنا عصا مار کر) خشک راستہ بنا لو، نہ (فرعون کے) آپکڑنے کا خوف کرو اور نہ (غرق ہونے کا) اندیشہ رکھو

Yousuf Ali We sent an inspiration to Moses: "Travel by night with My servants, and strike a dry path for them through the sea, without fear of being overtaken (by Pharaoh) and without (any other) fear." 

This can be seen in other places like:

1.
[27:28] Ithhab bikitabee hathafaalqih ilayhim thumma tawalla AAanhum faonthurmatha yarjiAAoona  اذهب بكتابي هذا فالقه اليهم ثم تول عنهم فانظر ماذا يرجعون
اذْهَب بِّكِتَابِي هَذَا فَأَلْقِهْ إِلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ تَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ فَانظُرْ مَاذَا يَرْجِعُونَ
Tahir ul Qadri   میرا یہ خط لے جا اور اسے ان کی طرف ڈال دے پھر ان کے پاس سے ہٹ آپھر دیکھ وہ کس بات کی طرف رجوع کرتے ہیں

Yousuf Ali "Go thou, with this letter of mine, and deliver it to them: then draw back from them, and (wait to) see what answer they return"... 


e.t.c

Salaams.

[loli]

Salaams Loli,

the "My" in 39:10 shouldn't be their as it is the letter "Ya" that gives us the "My" in a word.

Salam Simple!

Thanx for the response, appreciate it.

Therefore per your response 39:10 should be translated as

39:10 Say: "O worshippers/slaves those who believed, fear and obey your Lord, to those who did good in this the present world (is) a goodness/beauty, and God's earth/Planet Earth/land (is) spread/abundant , truly the patient are fulfilled/completed their reward without (an) account/calculation."

Therefore the verse is directed audience is to worshipers/slaves/servants who believed.. in general terms i think.

However it didnt solve the problem 39:53[?] why does God commands the prophet to call upon the people that he preached as "My worshippers/slave" ?
Something is not right.

I do notice that the word "'ibadi"(with silent Ya as suffix e.g 2:186,15:42,15:49) and "'ibadiya"(additional vowel fatha on the suffix Ya e.g 21:105,29:56,34:13) is often translates to the same word "My worshiper/slave/servants". However im not sure what is the fatha signifies and does it change the translated meaning[?]

if we were to accept the meaning in 39:53 as "My worshipper/slave/servant" could it be that the target audience is the people who actually worship the prophet against his will?

Kindly share your thoughts.

salam

[simple]

Salaams Loli,

Yes i agree with you this second aya and the context of the sura does seem to dictate it is addressing people who are worshipping/serving the prophet instead of Allah.

[39:43]
Ami ittakhathoo min dooni AllahishufaAAaa qul awa law kanoo la yamlikoonashay-an wala yaAAqiloona     ام اتخذوا من دون الله شفعاء قل اولو كانوا لا يملكون شيئا ولا يعقلون
أَمِ اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ شُفَعَاءَ قُلْ أَوَلَوْ كَانُوا لَا يَمْلِكُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَعْقِلُونَ
Tahir ul Qadri     کیا انہوں نے اللہ کے اِذن کے خلاف (بتوں کو) سفارشی بنا رکھا ہے؟ فرما دیجئے: اگرچہ وہ کسی چیز کے مالک بھی نہ ہوں اور ذی عقل بھی نہ ہوں
Yousuf Ali   What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?" 


14.
[39:44]
Qul lillahi alshshafaAAatujameeAAan lahu mulku alssamawati waal-ardithumma ilayhi turjaAAoona     قل لله الشفاعة جميعا له ملك السماوات والارض ثم اليه ترجعون
قُل لِّلَّهِ الشَّفَاعَةُ جَمِيعًا لَّهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ثُمَّ إِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ
Tahir ul Qadri     فرما دیجئے: سب شفاعت (کا اِذن) اللہ ہی کے اختیار میں ہے (جو اس نے اپنے مقرّبین کے لئے مخصوص کر رکھا ہے)، آسمانوں اور زمین کی سلطنت بھی اسی کی ہے، پھر تم اسی کی طرف لوٹائے جاؤ گے
Yousuf Ali   Say: "To Allah belongs exclusively (the right to grant) intercession: to Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: In the End, it is to Him that ye shall be brought back." 



23.
[39:53]
Qul ya AAibadiya allatheenaasrafoo AAala anfusihim la taqnatoo min rahmatiAllahi inna Allaha yaghfiru alththunoobajameeAAan innahu huwa alghafooru alrraheemu     قل يا عبادي الذين اسرفوا علي انفسهم لا تقنطوا من رحمة الله ان الله يغفر الذنوب جميعا انه هو الغفور الرحيم
قُلْ يَا عِبَادِيَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلَى أَنفُسِهِمْ لَا تَقْنَطُوا مِن رَّحْمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعًا إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
Tahir ul Qadri     آپ فرما دیجئے: اے میرے وہ بندو جنہوں نے اپنی جانوں پر زیادتی کر لی ہے! تم اللہ کی رحمت سے مایوس نہ ہونا، بے شک اللہ سارے گناہ معاف فرما دیتا ہے، وہ یقینا بڑا بخشنے والا، بہت رحم فرمانے والا ہے
Yousuf Ali   Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 


24.
[39:54]
Waaneeboo ila rabbikum waaslimoo lahumin qabli an ya/tiyakumu alAAathabu thumma la tunsaroona     وانيبوا الي ربكم واسلموا له من قبل ان ياتيكم العذاب ثم لا تنصرون
وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لَا تُنصَرُونَ
Tahir ul Qadri     اور تم اپنے رب کی طرف توبہ و انابت اختیار کرو اور اس کے اطاعت گزار بن جاؤ قبل اِس کے کہ تم پر عذاب آجائے پھر تمہاری کوئی مدد نہیں کی جائے گی
Yousuf Ali   "Turn ye to our Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that ye shall not be helped. 


If we are right, it is quite interesting!

Salaams.

[abdullah_m]

This is one of those shifting pronouns that the Quran is famous for. Allah will suddenly shift into the first person. Once you understand this, you can read it with the right association of pronoun with object.

[loli]

This is one of those shifting pronouns that the Quran is famous for. Allah will suddenly shift into the first person. Once you understand this, you can read it with the right association of pronoun with object.

salam abdullah_m

thanx for the reply.
While i do agree that i notice some of the Quranic verses that will suddenly shift God's reference to first person[cant recall any verse], However i do not notice any verse that within the context that God instruct the prophet to "Say" then the shift occur.

39:53 Say: "You my worshippers/slaves those who neglected/ignored on themselves, do not despair from God's mercy, that truly God forgives the crimes all/all together, that truly He is the forgiving, the merciful."

Also, from the verse , we can see God is describe as a thrid person in the same breath.

I hope that you could provide with some examples that will be helpfull.

salam.

[loli]

alam Simple,

Salaams Loli,

Yes i agree with you this second aya and the context of the sura does seem to dictate it is addressing people who are worshipping/serving the prophet instead of Allah.

Thank you for confirming this.

Althogh the preceding verse within the context that we understand is almost ~10 verse apart, i think it make sense.
Even the verse(39:53) says that god will forgive all crimes together(if the context is true, that will including associating the prophet with God). And the subsequent verse ask them to repent before the torture comes to them.

however i still would like to know if there is a difference in translating "'ibadi"(with silent Ya as suffix e.g 2:186,15:42,15:49) and "'ibadiya"(additional vowel fatha on the suffix Ya e.g 21:105,29:56,34:13,39:53) is often translates to the same word "My worshiper/slave/servants". Maybe you or other forumers can give an input.

Also i do invite other forumers to give their respective input regarding this topic.

Thanx!

[abdullah_m]

Salam loli.

I found this for you:

That human beings are the only beings with self-consciousness and self-reflexivity carries important consequences. While we are the only creatures who can say ?I,? there is a Being who can say, ?I am that I am.? This means God is the most self-reflexive of all beings. And to evoke that experience in one who reads (silently or aloud) the Qur?an, God?s voicing of self-referential pronouns shifts: in the Qur?an God speaks of himself as ?I,? ?He,? ?It,? and ?We.? In fact Arabic grammarians have coined a term for this pronominal shifting: ittifat. Some literary theorists who study the Qur?an suggest the experience of the shifting pronouns is meant to create a transcendental sense of God in the reader?s experience.

[loli]

Salam loli.

I found this for you:

Salam bro,

thanx

i did some Googleing around the net and found a summary of a book by Neal Robinson named Discovering The Qur'ān: A Contemporary Approach To A Veiled Text. It did mentioned about the Iltifāt on changing sudden shift in the pronoun of the speaker or the person spoken about

Summary is found on the here
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/robinson.html

It is mentioned that regarding 39:53

Now let us examine three ayahs which begin with the singular imperative 'Say', but which include words spoken by God in the first person:

    Say, 'It the sea were ink [for writing] the words of my Lord, surely the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were completed, even if We brought another like it to replenish it' (18:109).

    Say, 'If there were on the earth angels walking about in peace and security, We would certainly have sent down for them from the sky an angel as a messenger' (17:95).

    Say, 'O My servants who have transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Truly Allah forgives sins He is the All-forgiving, All-merciful' (39:53).

In the first of these, a surprise effect is achieved by the sudden shift to the first person plural. God Himself intervenes in all His majesty to utter fresh words, thereby showing that (as stated) His words will never be complete. In the second, the intervention is again in the first person plural, but it coincides with a shift to the third person plural 'them' to refer to the addressees. Thus, at the moment when God intervenes to express His power and majesty, He also distances Himself from the unbelievers in order to humiliate them. The third ayah is more puzzling because the imperative 'Say' is immediately followed by God's speech in the first person singular. Although this strains the normal rules of syntax, it establishes intimate communication between God and the believers, thus making them more receptive to the cognitive element of the message which is to follow.

I think this is the only ayat which have the imperative "say" then followed immediately by God's speech as first person singular,  then following the ayat, it talkes as Allah as third person singular. Two conversion in one short ayat.

Note also that comments given that this is straining the normal rules of syntax. My opinion is that example 1 & 2 can be considered and acceptable. Question is that to what extend that the normal rules of syntax can be bent?

salam

[loli]

Bump!

Is there any experts want to share their knowledge/opinions regarding the topic?

salam