Digital Messages

[Arman]

We need code and numbers when we need prove existence of God and only one is Quran, regardless context which are for time and location.

Salamun alaikum:

The proof of God's existence is oue own existence. For those who understand - that is enough of a proof.
The mathematical patterns in Qur'an can only be a sign - an reassurance for those who have faith.

Just because there are certain mathematical patterns in Qur'an - it becomes acceptable to "fish" for pattern through permutation and combination and claim them as "miracle"? Then Qur'an also has beautiful analogies so all books of philosophy with good analogies are miracle. Qur'an also have great literary value, then all good books of literature are "miracles".

This discussion is now going round a circle, so I'll cut it off here. Indeed our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.

Regards,
Arman

[Man of Faith]

Code 19 has so far not helped me in deciphering Quran. If it can in any way be of help it is only to a small fraction.

The so-called initials of Quran are not related primarily to that code but as assistance with proper interpretation of the scripture.

I now understand most of the dynamics of faith without much attention to that phenomenon.

But I am not excluding that when I rise in awareness of the functionality of the Arabic language the occurrences of the letters may play some role. In some of the chapters the count of the letters that precede the chapter are a multiple of 19. I know not in what way that would be of help though. Time or assimilation will tell.

But I would argue that the code is not an essence of faith, at all. The essence is affinity and assimilation.

Salaam

[Bahman]

Code 19 has so far not helped me in deciphering Quran. If it can in any way be of help it is only to a small fraction.

The so-called initials of Quran are not related primarily to that code but as assistance with proper interpretation of the scripture.

I now understand most of the dynamics of faith without much attention to that phenomenon.

But I am not excluding that when I rise in awareness of the functionality of the Arabic language the occurrences of the letters may play some role. In some of the chapters the count of the letters that precede the chapter are a multiple of 19. I know not in what way that would be of help though. Time or assimilation will tell.

But I would argue that the code is not an essence of faith, at all. The essence is affinity and assimilation.

Salaam

Peace

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9587.30

[Bahman]

Salamun alaikum:

The proof of God's existence is oue own existence. For those who understand - that is enough of a proof.
The mathematical patterns in Qur'an can only be a sign - an reassurance for those who have faith.

That exact path I reached to truth  Atheist> Gnostic> Believer based on mathematical sign for our era.

God bless you for your correction of my statement 

Just because there are certain mathematical patterns in Qur'an - it becomes acceptable to "fish" for pattern through permutation and combination and claim them as "miracle"?

Quran was revealed in Arabic for those that know Arabic, but Code 19 Miracle was revealed in Eglish worldwide which we communicate , but the first discovery INITIALS can be seen and be witnessed by those that know Arabic, I am not sure how many of 7+ billion can read write  Arabic and are interested if they are not brainwashed by their teacher to deny and reject code and finder before examining it.

Then as posted AWESOME MIRACLE was discovered that has no link to any language , pure  number  and i asked you if you reject such patterns and you claim there are other indexing with same result in 16 cases then please just post it. my work is in smaller segment like break a of  building that has proved its divinity from first letter to last letter in 6 cases.

You may found same breaks in other building but which one has such claim.

If you are ok with initials due to your Arabic knowledge then you are blessed and  should understand these patterns, and if you claim that by using permutation any other book would have same pattern purifying itself throwing out manipulation  then now or any time in future you find such book or you design one let other know too.   

Then Qur'an also has beautiful analogies so all books of philosophy with good analogies are miracle. Qur'an also have great literary value, then all good books of literature are "miracles".

I understand that and I believe you are right but that Miracle was good up to the time was not imitates like this, younger generation in this era are expecting something more touchable and challenging their knowledge, here again Language barrier blocks those to see the sign of God, and finally due to burning original of Quran as i posted link s, the copies do not match, deep meaning and Arabic pudding belongs to yesterday, Quran shows its divinity prior to read its text by numbers. 

This discussion is now going round a circle, so I'll cut it off here. Indeed our Master guides to the straight route whomever He wills.

Exactly, many come here and start same topic and same issue that can be found by forum powerful search and save time of them ,
I am trying to get out of this forum but yet isee some place to learn and here is best place
Peace.
PS
links
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596880.msg363523#msg363523

[Arman]

I understand that and I believe you are right but that Miracle was good up to the time was not imitates like this, younger generation in this era are expecting something more touchable and challenging their knowledge, here again Language barrier blocks those to see the sign of God, and finally due to burning original of Quran as i posted link s, the copies do not match, deep meaning and Arabic pudding belongs to yesterday, Quran shows its divinity prior to read its text by numbers. 

Salam Bahman.

No matter how much I am trying to get out of this discussion I am still being tempted to reply - because I am still sensing a "sense" in you that is open to searching and accepting the truth.

When Moses left his people for forty nights his followers expected something more touchable and evoking their awe - and the golden calf was "invented". A lot of us mistakenly think those people left God and started to worship a statue. No, they were worshipping God ofcourse, but they thought their love and respect for God would be better evoked if they had some material and touchable "icon" in front of them. The problem of creating such material and touchable "icon" is that very soon the focus shifts from obeying God by upholding our sense of right and wrong (righteousness) to serving the icon. This not only makes righteousness secondary - this renders "God" into a "tangible and explotable" constract which can be misused, manipulated and eventually "milked" for political and economic gain.

Creation of Golden Calf creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of Jesus on Crush and salvataion theory creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of "infallible Imams / salafs" constract creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of Code-19 creates such and exploitable icon for God. The same old wine in newer and finer cups.

Indeed there are signs for the people who think. May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

[Man of Faith]

Salaam,

Bahman is actually right in a way. If one is able to identify a mathematical code and appreciate it and have it boost your faith while you otherwise would not put your faith in a scripture as unrighteous as the traditional interpretation of it, then this is simply good enough. Mere trust and reliance on the Creator is better than blind faith in an unrighteous interpretation that some people think is the right interpretation and people have said is the right interpretation for over thousand years.

Intuitive search for what is good is a lot better in the pursuit of the truth concerning the phenomenon of a "higher intelligence". People put way too much trust in man's interpretation of it rather than being critical against every word it says without carefully analyzing it first. After all, the ultimate message from God in Quran is to be mindful of who you are and how you act and to struggle to be good, and that is realized in God. Can you be in the image of the Creator then you are surely on track. Can you not then you likely know yourself.

The faith has nothing to do with belief or guessing but is to realize yourself in God, to have faith and confidence.

The famous (to me infamous) 'la Elah ila Allah' is just speaking of this phenomenon, i.e. that one is not attuned until attuned which means you are not it until you truly are.

Salaam

[Bahman]

Salam Bahman.

No matter how much I am trying to get out of this discussion I am still being tempted to reply - because I am still sensing a "sense" in you that is open to searching and accepting the truth.

When Moses left his people for forty nights his followers expected something more touchable and evoking their awe - and the golden calf was "invented". A lot of us mistakenly think those people left God and started to worship a statue. No, they were worshipping God ofcourse, but they thought their love and respect for God would be better evoked if they had some material and touchable "icon" in front of them. The problem of creating such material and touchable "icon" is that very soon the focus shifts from obeying God by upholding our sense of right and wrong (righteousness) to serving the icon. This not only makes righteousness secondary - this renders "God" into a "tangible and explotable" constract which can be misused, manipulated and eventually "milked" for political and economic gain.

Creation of Golden Calf creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of Jesus on Crush and salvataion theory creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of "infallible Imams / salafs" constract creates such and exploitable icon for God. Creation of Code-19 creates such and exploitable icon for God. The same old wine in newer and finer cups.

Indeed there are signs for the people who think. May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Peace dear
You are not first one that somehow you accuse me of making 19 another idol , code 19 has been a tool, a vehicle to show me  the sign of God for this era.
I came here to post this in its topic,  (hope last one) , I have done my final decision to day, no book, no proof, no discussion, just peace and friendship and same God.
I agree with your post and wish you best for your life for yourself and family.
Peace.

[Bahman]

Salaam,

Bahman is actually right in a way. If one is able to identify a mathematical code and appreciate it and have it boost your faith while you otherwise would not put your faith in a scripture as unrighteous as the traditional interpretation of it, then this is simply good enough. Mere trust and reliance on the Creator is better than blind faith in an unrighteous interpretation that some people think is the right interpretation and people have said is the right interpretation for over thousand years.

Intuitive search for what is good is a lot better in the pursuit of the truth concerning the phenomenon of a "higher intelligence". People put way too much trust in man's interpretation of it rather than being critical against every word it says without carefully analyzing it first. After all, the ultimate message from God in Quran is to be mindful of who you are and how you act and to struggle to be good, and that is realized in God. Can you be in the image of the Creator then you are surely on track. Can you not then you likely know yourself.

The faith has nothing to do with belief or guessing but is to realize yourself in God, to have faith and confidence.

The famous (to me infamous) 'la Elah ila Allah' is just speaking of this phenomenon, i.e. that one is not attuned until attuned which means you are not it until you truly are.

Salaam

Peace
I enjoyed your posts all the time not for supporting but for you writing  style simple and deep, there are few others too that attract to read and do make make tired the people like my Bad English.

How ever I am ending my discussions in this forum about Book an Miracle as as would contradicts this concept which finally i decided to live with rest of my life, that do not mean i do not study and read scripture for my own understanding and information, nobody invited me to believe on God. I am inviting those believe in God
let the children do their own search and study by this screen, avoiding what has happened during centuries to our ancestors and yet in remote area which do not have enough education or do not have access to this screen. that was for yesterday not today.
I wish you and your family and appreciate time and patience with my posts.
God Bless.
Bahman

[Man of Faith]

Al-Salam aleikum brother Bahman. Zendeh Bashid. Will miss your chunks of numbers but of course you the most.

Salaam

[Bahman]

Al-Salam aleikum brother Bahman. Zendeh Bashid. Will miss your chunks of numbers but of course you the most.

Salaam

Reply #489 on: Yesterday at 23:23:23 ?!
232323=7x33189 
E-zad negahdar