Author Topic: Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?  (Read 4383 times)

Tony

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« on: September 25, 2003, 10:14:26 AM »
Salam all,

Can anyone explain to me the seeming discrepancy between:

    39:53.Say: ?O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For
God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.?[/list]

and:

    4:48.
God does not forgive that partners be set-up with Him, and He forgives what is beside that for whom He wills. Whoever sets-up partners with God Has indeed invented a great sin. [/list]

Peace,

Tony

zenje

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2003, 11:28:22 AM »
Salaam Tony,
I don't see this as a contradiction, but more of a continuity. God forgives all sins, but He doesn't forgive the GREAT sin of setting up partners with Him. Check the verses again and compare it with how I put it. Hey, I may be wrong, and this is just my opinion. :)
The way I see it, the verse (39:53) is about God telling His servants. If this is the case, his servants wouldn't associate or set up partners with God. So whatever sin they have, they should not despair of God's mercy. Also a point here is that his servants are still alive, and may have tansgressed against themselves. They still have a chance to ask for forgiveness, etc.
I'm not sure if I'm clear on this. Otherwise, I hope others will have a satisfactory answer for you.
Peace Bro! :D
If they turn away, then Say: "God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne." [9:129]

DoctorNO

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2003, 12:30:58 PM »
Quote from: "zenje"
Salaam Tony,
I don't see this as a contradiction, but more of a continuity. God forgives all sins, but He doesn't forgive the GREAT sin of setting up partners with Him. Check the verses again and compare it with how I put it. Hey, I may be wrong, and this is just my opinion. :)

The tony i know did not accept that kind of reasoning when used by bible apologists. He would want something explicitly written, not a personally concocted "but".

<i wonder where he got that case>


Well damon claimed to have seen the truth in the quran. Maybe he has something to say.  :)
The Free-Mind among the free-minds, at your service.

Damon

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2003, 09:10:05 PM »
Peace everyone,

DoctorNo
Quote
Well damon claimed to have seen the truth in the quran. Maybe he has something to say.


It is very easy for a non-believer of the Quran to not only see these verses as contradictory, but also to judge the above explanation as apologetic.

My assumption was always that this issue was very clear to every firm believer in GOD and the Quran.

Even Shirk (Idolworship) is forgivable as long as one has repented and ceased and desist polytheistic beliefs and behaviour.

It is only when one "Dies" as a mushrik (idolworshipper) and has not repented nor gave up idolatry that he/she will not be forgiven.

It would be best to gather all the verses concerning this very issue in order to paint a much clearer portrait of where GOD stands on this.

Peace all,

Damon.

mquran

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2003, 10:37:55 PM »
Salaamun alaikum,

Firstly, we need to see the meaning of 'ghfr'. 'ghfir' is usually translated as 'forgive', but this is inaccurate. The more accurate understanding is 'protect' or 'shield from harm'.

Please see this url :

http://www.toluislam.com/pub_online/exposition/glossary_e_to_h.htm#_Toc428590229


the word in 39/53 is 'dzunub'. Allah will 'ghafr' all dzunub. Does the Quran say 'shirik' is a dzunub ?

Shirik rather is the SOURCE of dzunub.

So as long as you have shirik in you, Allah will not protect/ghafr you from dzunub. But if you are Allah's servant , as 39/53 calls to, then Allah will protect you from all dzunub.

Don't let the translations get in the way, guys. Look at the transliterations if you can, and you will see that translations are rather callous works sometimes.

thanks and peace.

Jibril

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2003, 11:55:33 PM »
Its clear
I think people make the contradictions becuase they want to, language or translational.

the point is God according to the Qur'an wants mankind to keep up what Abraham and moses did, which was worship one God only and ward off evil, fight the unjust who refuse to repent and respect humanity by abusing it fro there lusts and greed.

DoctorNO

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2003, 05:45:37 AM »
Quote from: "Jibril"
Its clear of contradiction,

Exactly what the christians say about the bible.

Quote from: "Jibril"

very clear and tests your honesty, this means its GOOD that you ask, becuase that is how it invites you to the truth....

clear?   :lol:  clear for whom? clear of what? clear in what manner? clear on which areas of the book? clear of which areas of doctrine?

from what I know the quran is anything but clear on many of its teachings which is why 98% of muslims require the aid of the Hadiths for what the muslm MENJ said..."to clarify the Qur'an".

right?
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Tony

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2003, 09:01:07 AM »
Quote from: "DoctorNO"

The tony i know did not accept that kind of reasoning when used by bible apologists. He would want something explicitly written, not a personally concocted "but".


In all honesty, I wouldn't want the Quran to be defended the way bible apologists defend the bible. I love the Quran, but I will not be honest with myself and God if I didn't admit seeing a discrepancy, real or not.

I know the gravity of setting up partners with God. Even if God forgives all sins (including idol worship), I couldn't imagine myself praying to Jesus, Muhammad, Mary, statues, or following blindly overly talkative preachers. And I couldn't imagine anyone after reading and examining the Quran objectively and accepting it doing such sin.

Quote from: "mquran"
the word in 39/53 is 'dzunub'. Allah will 'ghafr' all dzunub. Does the Quran say 'shirik' is a dzunub ?

Shirik rather is the SOURCE of dzunub.

So as long as you have shirik in you, Allah will not protect/ghafr you from dzunub. But if you are Allah's servant , as 39/53 calls to, then Allah will protect you from all dzunub.


39:53 mentions dzunub while  4:48 mentions shrik. How do you define "shrik" ? Is "shrik" not a kind of "dzunub" or sin? Or does "shrik" has a different classification due to its gravity?

Layth

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2003, 09:22:56 AM »
Peace Tony,

The answer you are looking for is in the people being spoken to in both verses (they are not the same).

39:53 is adressing God's servants (ya ibadi) who by beings God's servants they have not set-up partners, but in the verse they are concerned that they may have transgressed the limits...God tells them:'do not despair, for God fogives all the sins'.

4:48 (also 4:116) is a general statement adressing all...God does not forgive setting-up partners, unless He choses so.

No contradiction I can see...

Regards,

Layth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

DoctorNO

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Discrepancy Between 39:53 and 4:48?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2003, 09:37:36 AM »
Quote from: "Layth"

The answer you are looking for is in the people being spoken to in both verses (they are not the same).


Recognize this technique? Its one of the ways bible apologists defend the bible.  :lol:
The Free-Mind among the free-minds, at your service.