Author Topic: Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature  (Read 10146 times)

DoctorNO

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« on: September 24, 2003, 12:38:50 PM »
    018.029
    YUSUFALI: Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted
water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
PICKTHAL: Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!
SHAKIR: And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place.
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According to Mohammad the said water would be like molten brass in what manner? heat? heat that would scald faces. If that is the case then this would be another fine example of the scientific errors in the quran for the lowest temperature by which brass melts is 900 degrees celcius. When at 374 Celcius the water molecules disintigrates into its component parts.

* A miracle? If so then the Allah would be an inefficient God. why waste energy transmuting water into a molten brass like matter instead of just serving molten brass?

* A figure of speech? Well mohammed used a poor choice of words...water like molten brass? its so wrong.

* Or just simply an error out of ignorance?

 8)
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Sha

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2003, 01:28:10 PM »
Peace Doctor...

First of all I don't take scientific evidence as a criteria for believing that the Quran is a guidance for mankind...science has a habit of 'moving on'...progress, they say...

I think the best way to judge the Quran would be to judge the 'eternal principles' it presents...do they make sense to you or not? Let's say for your convenience that its not the literal word of God...But God's message to mankind delivered by using Muhammad's vocabulary...

If you have read Marx...and believed him...or Machiavelli...and believed him...or anyone for that matter...On what basis did you believe them? It wasn't blind faith in the man's wisdom for sure....You must have reasoned through their arguments...and either accepted them or rejected them...

Look at the Quran in the same way...its presenting a system...its promising some results...Do they make sense to you? Do you think the results it promises will come around if the system is followed? But for that...you'll first have to identify the 'eternal principles' that the Quran presents...since you are so bent on proving it wrong...have you tried to discover those principles?

I agree that we dont see a perfect example of what the Quran preaches...but in the same way that any other philosophy would not be rejected based on contemporary people not following it...so too with the Quran...

As for your present post...I'm not an expert...but tell me...is it that water will be like melted brass...or melted brass will be like water?

The point is it won't feel good...does that make sense to you?

:)

A believer in God and His system's perfection...

Sha
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DoctorNO

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2003, 01:54:59 PM »
Quote from: "Sha"

I think the best way to judge the Quran would be to judge the 'eternal principles' it presents...do they make sense to you or not? Let's say for your convenience that its not the literal word of God...But God's message to mankind delivered by using Muhammad's vocabulary...


There are eternal principles like love, mercy and forgiveness. Anyone can write about those eternal principles.

However I am criticizing the Qurans claim that it came from God. Simply because it fails its own test that a literature that contains errors cannot have originated from God. So by that Yes the quran contains eternal principles however it could not be the word of a God.

Quote from: "Sha"

Look at the Quran in the same way...its presenting a system...its promising some results...Do they make sense to you?

No. The quran advices beating uncooperative wives. I dont think thats right. The quran advices giving half inheritance to daughters. I think thats unfair as an "eternal principle". It works only in the past.

Quote from: "Sha"

Do you think the results it promises will come around if the system is followed?

The miserable and unpeaceful Islamic nations proves that the promise does not work. So no.

Quote from: "Sha"

 But for that...you'll first have to identify the 'eternal principles' that the Quran presents...since you are so bent on proving it wrong...have you tried to discover those principles?

Yes like the love of desires mentioned in 3:14. Nothing uncommon.


Quote from: "Sha"

As for your present post...I'm not an expert...but tell me...is it that water will be like melted brass...or melted brass will be like water?

both are like each other in terms of their material state - liquid. however there is no way both can be like each other in terms of temperature.

If Allah only knew...  :shock:
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AaRoN

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2003, 02:10:06 PM »
peace

now i've seen some stupid things in my day, but an agnostic arguing over the scientific (in)accuracies of descriptions of hell?

i'm going to tell all of my friends about this one!

please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which brass melts in hell. please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which water disintegrates into its component parts in hell.

if you have no evidence to prove otherwise, then to claim that such things are preposterous is scientifically invalid, isn't it?

also, i will once again take this opportunity to suggest to you to use multiple translations when investigating such things, especially if you are not willing to investigate the arabic itself!
this will help get you started. it even has a more literal translation for you! :D

--

if you maintain such an attitude towards the Quran, your chances of investigating the evidence up close will greatly increase. :)
* the Divine suffices as observer - appreciation is the message of the Divine - and those who are with it are harsh on concealment and nurture between themselves *

mquran

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2003, 02:31:28 PM »
Peace Dr No,

About the promise of the Quraan for those who follow its teachings, You wrote:

Quote
The miserable and unpeaceful Islamic nations proves that the promise does not work. So no.


Do you consider yourself an objective researcher, I wonder ? The fact that you related 'islamic nations' with Al-Quraan's teachings shows that you completely missed the point of the forum.

TheNabi

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2003, 02:48:14 PM »
Peace Mujahid  :)

Quote
The fact that you related 'islamic nations' with Al-Quraan's teachings shows that you completely missed the point of the forum.


This is a problem that DoctorNo, along with many other members at the Faith Freedom forum have. I'm in a discussion now at Faith Freedom where people are confusing teachings of the Scripture with the practice of the Muslim nations, or Muslims themselves, who are not acting in accordance with the Scripture.  :twisted:

Take care.

Joe
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek for verification & knowledge. ~> [3/190-191; 17/

mquran

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2003, 03:05:29 PM »
Peace Joe,

Hey man, its not our loss. We can only point thing out, right?

Sha

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2003, 03:19:04 PM »
Peace Doctor...

I fail to understand why you are wasting your time on a Book that, in your opinion, does not contain guidance for mankind.

Much better if you spend your time doing something you do believe in. Even if its just football.

And if you are bothering...why not make a sincere effort? Why close your eyes? See...Sunni Muslims have a similar problem...they dont expect to be guided so they are not. If we are a bunch that thinks they can learn their eternal principles of life from the Quran...u shudnt have a problem. Just like I dont have a problem in u playing football.

Sha

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Sarat

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2003, 09:15:07 PM »
Peace,

Hell ya my dad beats the shit out of my mom all the time. Cuz we are a "MUSLIM" family hahahahah......................................................................................................................................................................................................

DoctorNO

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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2003, 12:13:14 PM »
Quote from: "AaRoN"
now i've seen some stupid things in my day, but an agnostic arguing over the scientific (in)accuracies of descriptions of hell?

i'm going to tell all of my friends about this one!

please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which brass melts in hell. please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which water disintegrates into its component parts in hell.

if you have no evidence to prove otherwise, then to claim that such things are preposterous is scientifically invalid, isn't it?

Like I said if this was a figure of speech then mohammed made the wrong choice of words. he used "water" so we must take into account the qualities of water. he used "molten brass" so we must take into account the qualities of "molter brass". but their qualities cannot interlock so that the water will become like molten brass in terms of heat. a true perfect and omnicient god would never make that ignorant mistake. he would have said something like this instead...
    And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given a water-like substance that is like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place.

Right?


Quote

also, i will once again take this opportunity to suggest to you to use multiple translations when investigating such things, especially if you are not willing to investigate the arabic itself!
this will help get you started. it even has a more literal translation for you! :D

--

if you maintain such an attitude towards the Quran, your chances of investigating the evidence up close will greatly increase. :)


gee thanks! that would be helpful.  :)
The Free-Mind among the free-minds, at your service.