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Original/Earliest Quran

Started by Gentile, September 11, 2003, 07:36:51 AM

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Gentile

I do not understand why the question is not being addressed :cry:

I am saying that there are obvious differences, albeit minor, between the medieval Samarqand Quran and the 1924 standard edition which is the version that is readily available. That was the purpose of providing the link in my first posting, to highlight such differences. There also exist differences between the Hafs and Warsh readings, again they are minor and do not in essence effect the message of the revelation. The fact is these differences are there.

So can one obtain a copy of the Quran based on the oldest verisions rather than the 1924 version? Why did changes occur in the words and letters anyway?

Can people let me know whether they believe that:

1. Muhamad wrote the Quran himself
2. Muhamad arranged the present order of the Quran

Don't you agree we need to have a reassurance of total cohesiveness in this regard? That is all I want to find out. I know about the verses and what they say, but I am talking about the differences in the writings which are done by humans, which luckily in any case haven't significantly affected the actual message.

hairet

Salam,

I hope this does not sound nick-picking, but what do you mean or understand by 'obvious differences'?

Is the difference, you refer to, about:

--pronunciation, as in  to-maa-to   vs   to-may-to  [tomato]
--the way letters used to be written in the past as compared to how they are written today
--change of meaning because of how a word was spelled  [ example from your link,  basta being spelled by seen  and saad
--introduction of 'new letters'  to better express in written form the various sounds.

It would be probably better if you point out what kind of 'difference'  you feel there is between various versions, otherwise, we would be just speculating.  I for one opened my copy of quran and found a word strangely spelled. I almost lost my faith, but thank heavens I sneezed and the black speckle that was settled on the word, blew away revealing the correct word underneath :)

Reminds me of a 'popular' hadith whereupon caliph usman, upon being told that there were 'differences'  in the quran,  said, no problem the arabs will simply correct it when they read it.   I wonder what was the context of that hadith. I know some egyptians pronouce jeem as gaaf, i wonder how they sound reading quran.

TheNabi

Peace

QuoteI for one opened my copy of quran and found a word strangely spelled. I almost lost my faith, but thank heavens I sneezed and the black speckle that was settled on the word, blew away revealing the correct word underneath

:lol:   :lol:   :lol:

That's pretty funny.

Joe
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek for verification & knowledge. ~> [3/190-191; 17/

Layth

Dear Gentile,

Quote1. Muhamad wrote the Quran himself
2. Muhamad arranged the present order of the Quran

1. Yes, I do believe Mohammed/Ahmed wrote the Quran with his own hand due to various verses on the subject.

2. Yes, Mohammed/Ahmed arranged the Quran in its present format under inspiration from God.

Thus, to my understanding, the entire 'Uthman Comitee' was a scam designed to discredit the Quran and the prophet by claiming that it was the companions who recalled the verses and put them together in its current format (leading to the contravercial hadith of 9:127-129 being not found except with Khuzama which is the foundation of Rashad Khalifa deleting them!).

Layth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Jibril

Quote from: "Layth"Dear Gentile,

Quote1. Muhamad wrote the Quran himself
2. Muhamad arranged the present order of the Quran

1. Yes, I do believe Mohammed/Ahmed wrote the Quran with his own hand due to various verses on the subject.

2. Yes, Mohammed/Ahmed arranged the Quran in its present format under inspiration from God.

Thus, to my understanding, the entire 'Uthman Comitee' was a scam designed to discredit the Quran and the prophet by claiming that it was the companions who recalled the verses and put them together in its current format (leading to the contravercial hadith of 9:127-129 being not found except with Khuzama which is the foundation of Rashad Khalifa deleting them!).

Layth

Do you have a link to that information as proof, im sure that everyone here is entitled to the truth..

Layth

Peace,

Quote1. Yes, I do believe Mohammed/Ahmed wrote the Quran with his own hand due to various verses on the subject.

"You were not reciting any scripture before this, nor were you compiling one with your own hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason." (29:48)

Quote2. Yes, Mohammed/Ahmed arranged the Quran in its present format under inspiration from God.

"And if We move a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they say: ?You are making this up!? Alas, most of them do not know. Say: ?The holy spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have surrendered.? (16:101-102)

Layth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

afdhere

Salam, Layth,

Interesting. 29:48 just says the dude was Gentile, no? Which is kind of funny because the inquirer is "Gentile"  :lol:



your brother,

Afdhere
Afdhere Jama,
Editor-In-Chief
Huriyah magazine
editor@huriyahmag.com
[url="http://www.huriyahmag.com"]http://www.huriyahmag.com[/url]

Wakas

peace Gentile,

QuoteI also noticed Anwar Goins quoting a verse were it directs Muhamad to 'arrange the quran excellently'.

Anwar may have been referring to 73:4 -

Or a little more, and arrange (RaTiLi) the Quran in its arrangement (tarteelan).

http://burhan.freewebsitehosting.com/data/b.x.1112.htm

Ra-Ta-Lam = even, well arranged/set together, make distinct, correct/right state of arrangement (primary usage is in relation to nice teeth), read/recite in a leisurely manner, chant


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Gentile

Cheers Wakas, yep thats the verse. So does this indicate that Muhamad did write the Quran or not is the question?

I have also come across Luxenburg's interesting theory about the Quran actually being in Syriac and not in Arabic, stating that Arabic did not exist at the time of Muhamad. He also points out using the Syriac words, the misinterpreted verses apparently referring to 'virgins' or 'women' as heavenly rewards become rewards of 'fruit' if interpreted in Syriac, which after all was the ancestor of Arabic.

I also believe an article on this site referred to this possibility. In addition many of the names of prophets in the Quran take their Syriac form rather than the Hebrew form i.e 'sulayman', 'ishaq' etc.

John_From_Ohio

Peace Gentile,

I, too, read the article about the original Quran possibly being in Syriac instead of Arabic.  I was curious as to the reactions of others to this article.

I have often thought that the traditional translation and interpretation that leads to heaven as being brothel-like is in error.  Whether or not that requires the Syriac concept or not, I do not know.

Peace,

John