Author Topic: ON WHICH TERRITORY?  (Read 6873 times)

Danish

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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2003, 12:32:47 AM »
To Nabi and Wakas....Peace.

So, by avoiding the Quran completely, does that mean that I do not need to perform ablution, 5 times salat, 30 days fasting, go to pilgrimage, pay 2.5% or whatever alms, and perhaps several other "rules" that one MUST obey in order to believe in God and still reach heaven.

AaRoN

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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2003, 02:08:53 AM »
peace

joe's quote:

Quote
You do not need the Quran to believe in God, the Quran just promotes the Gods system.


delusions' quote:

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So, by avoiding the Quran completely, does that mean that I do not need to perform ablution, 5 times salat, 30 days fasting, go to pilgrimage, pay 2.5% or whatever alms, and perhaps several other "rules" that one MUST obey in order to believe in God and still reach heaven.


how does what joe said about not needing the Quran to believe
suddenly turn into not needing the Quran to act on those beliefs?

if you want to follow the Quran, then the Quran is indeed necessary.

if you don't want to follow the Quran, then what possible motive would you have for continuing this discussion?
* the Divine suffices as observer - appreciation is the message of the Divine - and those who are with it are harsh on concealment and nurture between themselves *

Danish

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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2003, 12:46:59 PM »
Peace.

Quote
joe's quote:

Quote:
You do not need the Quran to believe in God, the Quran just promotes the Gods system.

delusions' quote:

Quote:
So, by avoiding the Quran completely, does that mean that I do not need to perform ablution, 5 times salat, 30 days fasting, go to pilgrimage, pay 2.5% or whatever alms, and perhaps several other "rules" that one MUST obey in order to believe in God and still reach heaven.

how does what joe said about not needing the Quran to believe
suddenly turn into not needing the Quran to act on those beliefs?


Its pretty obvious, isn;t it? Can;t you SEE it all around you? Is it a MUST to read the Quran in order to believe in the beliefs? Also, stop defending and siding others, unless you yourself are absolutely sure, before you become too arrogant.

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if you want to follow the Quran, then the Quran is indeed necessary.

Illogical statement.

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if you don't want to follow the Quran, then what possible motive would you have for continuing this discussion?

There are plenty of reasons given on this forum in case you 'overlooked'.

TheNabi

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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2003, 01:03:09 PM »
Peace

It is a must to believe in the Quran to believe in those things that the Quran teaches. It is not a must, and totally unnecessary to believe in the Quran to believe in God.  :wink:

Quote
Quote:
if you want to follow the Quran, then the Quran is indeed necessary.

Illogical statement.


I'm confused now, how is that statement illogical?

Take care.

Joe
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek for verification & knowledge. ~> [3/190-191; 17/

mquran

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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2003, 01:03:23 PM »
Salaamun alaikum,

There are indeed many paths which Allah offers us. Please see 29/69, look out for the word 'pathS'.

In my reading, I believe our relationship with the Quran to be as such:

1. If we read Quran but inspiration (wahi) hasn't come to us, we may accept or reject it.

2. If we read Quran and inspiration comes to us that this is from Allah and we reject it, then we are in disbelief.

To Mr Delusions, the concepts which Allah gave us through the Quran are tools. These tools will help us in life and increase our standing with Allah. However, if a person goes through life without these tools, then Allah judges him based on what is in his heart.

many thanks and peace

Danish

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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2003, 01:26:40 PM »
peace.

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To Mr Delusions, the concepts which Allah gave us through the Quran are tools. These tools will help us in life and increase our standing with Allah. However, if a person goes through life without these tools, then Allah judges him based on what is in his heart.

Misjudged. I never said that I do not follow for what's in the Quran, ie. the tools. In other words, I still follow the tools of the Quran without the need of the Quran.

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if you want to follow the Quran, then the Quran is indeed necessary.

The reason why this is illogical is because I do not need the Quran to follow everything that I already follow what the Quran says. Still confused?

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It is a must to believe in the Quran to believe in those things that the Quran teaches. It is not a must, and totally unnecessary to believe in the Quran to believe in God.  

Although well said by TheNabi, I will add my above 'statement in bold'.

Sha

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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2003, 10:19:43 AM »
Peace Delusions...

I'm confused about what you are trying to say or imply. And you are also confused.

Can you try making a coherent case for what you want to say? I'm not asking because I'm generally curious...I'm seriously curious about the specific subject you are messing around with. ;)

Thanx

Sha
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Danish

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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2003, 06:44:53 PM »
Peace Sha,

Firstly, if you yourself are confused, then you mustn’t accuse me of messing around with the subject whilst thinking that I am also confused. This by itself is illogical.

In order to understand what I was implying, I believe you must first try to grasp and eliminate your confusion by understanding, differentiating and pondering upon what is "God-made" and what is "man-made". If you have mastered this simple notion, then I presume you’ve understood your own confusion based upon the "subject".

For example: my ten year old son, who has no idea what Quran is all about, has been growing up in his very own environment as laid out in this life until he departs. He goes through several phases of life, learning and understanding every aspect of it. One day, he lies about something and gets exposed. The next day he steals something from school and gets punished for. In the following days he gets caught up in a fight and either beats or gets beaten up. On the contrary, he also does his assigned homework and gets rewarded. He works hard and gets paid for. He helps a blind man cross the street one day and gets praised for and so on and so forth. Every phase of real life incidents that he encounters, whether good or bad, he learns, understands and ponders upon them and its outcome. As he grows, he experiences zillion other real life syndromes. He also advances in the academics of ABCD’s and 1234’s, weighing in and upholding them in accordance with his best judgment. He senses the ups and downs of life that carries him along. Gradually, he questions himself and everything that surrounds him and his beliefs, the Creator and the Creation. The question is, did he ever need the Quran to justify his real life experiences which has been specially and specifically "red-carpetted" for him and only him, on this earth.

A topic you chose on this forum: "Buddhism has lessons for us". I hope it has helped somewhat in understanding my points and to get rid of your confusion, not mine.

Hope this has helped.
God Bless.

Sha

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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2003, 11:14:35 AM »
Peace Delusions...

I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I wasn't refering to your state of mind but to that particular post which preceded mine.

To know the straight path, or the true path, Quran is an extremely useful guide. And I agree with you that we can discover this path even without the Quran. Divine guidance just makes things easier as well as makes them more certain then otherwise.

Relax. :)

Sha
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