Author Topic: CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE  (Read 4937 times)

truth

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1211
  • Karma +7/-6
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2005, 04:40:35 PM »
Hi all,

I don't think that there is anything wrong with greeting someone in the normal way in English - I know the Koran says answer with an equal or better greeting - but there is nothing at all negative in 'dear'.


dear
adj. dear?er, dear?est

   1.
         1. Loved and cherished: my dearest friend.
         2. Greatly valued; precious: lost everything dear to them.
   2. Highly esteemed or regarded. Used in direct address, especially in salutations: Dear Lee Dawson.

   4. Earnest; ardent: ?This good man was a dear lover and constant practicer of angling? (Izaak Walton).
   5. Obsolete. Noble; worthy.
   6. Heartfelt: It is my dearest wish.


n.

   1. One that is greatly loved.
   2. An endearing, lovable, or kind person.


adv.

   1. With fondness; affectionately.


So I think pedantry is not called for. Undue attention to these formal rules with ostentation is also not a very admirable thing.

Whether it be 'peace' or 'dear' each is acceptable in my opinion.

Regards.


"the Knower of the Unseen, and He reveals unto none His secret,
Save unto a messenger whom He has chosen, and He made an affirmer to proceed him and another to follow him.
That He may know that they have indeed conveyed the messages of their Lord. He is cognizant of all their doings, and He keeps account of all things."

72:26-28

idolfree1

  • Guest
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2005, 12:30:32 AM »
Peace be upon you Edip,

Quote
You are misinterpreting the verses. Abraham never told them what he would do specifically or exactly. He told them that he would do a TRICK, TRAP, or A PLAN against their idols. The word KaYD, as you want us to believe, does not mean destroy, smash, break. Most likely they never expected him to break them; they expected something silly, as some people are expecting something silly from my "prophecy"!


Yes, the translation I used was off on the word Kayd, it correctly means "scheme/plan", but how does that change my position? Abraham told them clearly that he was going to scheme against thier idols. Yes or no?

Quote
They had no clue what he meant with it. Otherwise, they would most likely guard them day and night, imprison or banish Abraham before he fulfilled the act. You are insulting Abraham's intelligence by claiming that he told people that he was going to break their idols, risking his safety and success of his pedagoical plan.


You are insulting the FEARLESSNESS of the messengers.  Musa stood before Firaun and his court and challenged the enemy face to face, now you want us to believe that Abraham should have been scared and concealed the truth? YOU want us to beleive that Abraham should fear men instead of the God? Did you not read the verse? He told them he would execute his plan WHEN THEY TURNED THIER BACKS. True, they did not know he would break them, but he told them CLEARLY  he was going to scheme against them.


Quote
You are also undermining the devotion of idolworshipers to their idols; if they new exactly what Abraham was going to do, they would not sleep on his threat.


They underestimated the messenger of the God and must have took him for a joke, because he told them clearly he had a scheme for when they turned thier backs.


Quote
Besides, his people did not recall that Abraham was going to break their idols, they recalled that Abraham was talking against their idols. Recalling someone talking against something is different than recalling someone doing a particular act against something. You are confusing both.



What was the "talk" that they heard?


Quote
Abraham gave them a VAGUE warning and surprised them by morning. What I am doing with Ali Sina is very similar to that.


With a cross word puzzle? For the 19th of Feb?

Quote
As for Moses, are we required to parrot him?


We are instructed to follow the examples set for us by the messengers.

Quote
Are we limited with what Moses or another messenger did?


NO, but the God is giving us guidance to follow, that is the best method.


Quote
I do not think so. I believe that as long as the means of delivering the message does not violate a divine principle, it is fine. Otherwise, using your logic, I can site the names of 27 messengers and their delivery of God's message and accuse you of following a wrong strategy by discussing God's message via computer; since none used the computer, except the most recent messenger who you deny.


Are you serious? First of all, a computer is a means of communication, just like writing a letter as Solomon did. Second, you calim rashad is a messenger, so how would I be violating according to YOUR position? You cant have it both ways. Lastly, I don't deny ANY messenger, but  you should understand that a person is only a messenger at the time they are speaking TRUTH, any other time they are just "Kyle, Edip, Rashad, etc"


Quote
None of the messengers in the Quran asked his followers to mimick them or the acts of previous messengers.


Are the messengers examples for us to follow, yes or no?

Quote
I see that we have important methodological difference. You tend to even prohibit or reject the word DEAR as a greeting. I started having a good idea about your attitude, comprehension, and position on issues.


The God gave us a greeting that is BEST, because the goal is PEACE, so we wish those whom we come in contact with a greeting of PEACE to be upon them.

Quote
I guess we would not be able to work together as a united force.


United in what? Not 19, not salaat, not hajj, not ramadan, what would we be united on?

But I would ALWAYS work with you in that which promotes good, like charity, helping faith freedom understand that "muslims" are not the proper description for terrorists, etc. Basically, I help in all that is good.


Quote
But, this does not mean we have to work against each other, eiether.


Debating is not working againt each other. I am against the creation of sects, and I am agaisnt joining with a group that hold 19 as partner to the God, wether realized or not. I say that because when I was deep in that same trial, after Layth helped me to see my error, I stepped back and looked at my posts and articles and saw that I had 19's everywhere, when I escaped that the whole message started to open up. I hope that you will see the same.

Quote
Perhaps the best strategy is not discussing anything with each other. Of course, you are free to criticize me.


My critisisms are for your philosophy, not you. If I met you today I would hug you as a friend, I respect your struggle, but I long for the day that you shed the 19 partner and use your talents to help us.

idolfree1

  • Guest
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2005, 12:38:17 AM »
Peace be upon you  Idris and Edip,

 :D  Idris, Edip does not know me that well  :D


Quote
PS: Why do you think that Idolfree is not starting his mails with Bismillah, like Solomon?


Probably because I am here studying and debating, not writing letters to a Queen.

idolfree1

  • Guest
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2005, 12:49:49 AM »
Peace  be upn you Truth,

Quote
So I think pedantry is not called for. Undue attention to these formal rules with ostentation is also not a very admirable thing.

Whether it be 'peace' or 'dear' each is acceptable in my opinion.


Thank you for your opinion. Please tell me how you understand the following statement;

(58:8) ...and if they came to you, they greeted you with what God does not greet you with it, and they say in their minds: "If only God tortures us because (of) what we say." ...

What was the greeting the God instructed us to say? We have to understand that we are supposed to be  creating a CULTURE , so that it can develop righteous beings devoted to PEACE.

That is why we say "Salaam"
That is why Jews say "Shalom"
That is why Ancinet  Egyptians said "Hetep"
That is why Christains say "Peace be with you, and also with you"

I don't really have a problem with "Dear", but I am pointing out that you can determine a lot of things by the WHAT PEOPLE SAY.

(47:30) (RK) If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. GOD is fully aware of all your works.

So in conclusion, you are not under any compulsion by myself to say "Peace", but I will stick to the message of the God and continue to give the BEST greeting possible,knowing that what I say has an EFFECT, and is not meaningless.

KGB

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 878
  • Karma +2/-4
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2005, 04:26:19 AM »
There are plenty of occassions I have noticed a clear favoritism to 19ers followers of false messenger Rashad Al Khalifah cult as they can get away with anything else including personal attacks.

The good which happened that Free Minds had make me a much more firm believer in God Almighty message and firm belief that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the Last Prophet and Last Messenger.

The articles and posts which do idolized Rashad Al Khalifah and his faulty code 19 has driven me to much more close to Islam which btw I was drifting.
Qur'an - The Final Words of Allah (SWT).
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is The Last Prophet & The Last Messenger.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Rahmatan lil AAalameena.
Prophet Muhammad is Rosool Allah.
Prophet Muhammad is Kathim un Nabieen.

Grourself

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 241
  • Karma +1/-2
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2005, 08:21:09 AM »
Peace Truth,

Quote
I don't think that there is anything wrong with greeting someone in the normal way in English - I know the Koran says answer with an equal or better greeting - but there is nothing at all negative in 'dear'.

[4.86] And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet with a better (greeting) than it or return it; surely Allah takes account of all things.

The word rendered as greeting is HAYYA. This word means to give life. I understand this verse differently. Can anyone explain?
41:33 And who is better in speech than him who invites people to Allah, tries to grow himself in goodness, fulfills the needs of others and declares, "Surely, I am one of those who surrender unto Him?"

Edip Yuksel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Karma +2/-2
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2005, 01:43:15 PM »
Quote
The articles and posts which do idolized Rashad Al Khalifah and his faulty code 19 has driven me to much more close to Islam which btw I was drifting.


What a lousy reason to stop drifting, KGB!

Strentghening fate by looking at the fault or perceived fault of a group, to me, is one of the most ridiculous way of continuing believing in something.

Let me illustrate your pathetic argument:

Let's assume, I believe that 2+3 is 7. But, I add two apples to three apples and count them and I do not get the number 7. I start drifting. Then, I learn that a fringe group believes that 2+3 is 5. I find it a faulty idea and I stop drifting. Now I believe that 2+3 is indeed 7 :D

No wonder you do not get the message of 19!

Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

KGB

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 878
  • Karma +2/-4
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2005, 02:01:07 AM »
Stupid idiotic analysis based on mockery and foolishness just like the code 19 illogical reasoning to prove it a miracle.

19ers are not the first or last enemy of the Prophet who God Almighty has commanded us to follow there were hadith writers who created doubts about the authenticity of Qur'an by including fabricated stories about goat chewing up two verses or some one named Imam Mehdi has the original Qur'an which has plenty more verses and chapters.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed messengership by calling himself better than Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and he was Jesus, Marry, Imam Mehdi, the promised hindus avtar according to me he was a mad man. Mirza had the same sologan as 19ers false Messenger Rashad Al Khalifah that he has come to unite Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus. So keep following the fase Messengers and prophets I am sure there will be plenty more coming. I am at peace following Prophet Muhammad (SAW) as commanded by God Almighty.

Are you guys some CIA funded group trying to create more division among Muslims?
Qur'an - The Final Words of Allah (SWT).
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is The Last Prophet & The Last Messenger.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Rahmatan lil AAalameena.
Prophet Muhammad is Rosool Allah.
Prophet Muhammad is Kathim un Nabieen.

Ash Shuura

  • Guest
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2005, 06:57:23 AM »
Quote
Are you guys some CIA funded group trying to create more division among Muslims?


49:12 O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another. Would one of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.

tux

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • Karma +0/-0
CLOSING, ANALYSIS, and the SURPRISE NOTE
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2005, 08:13:47 AM »
Peace KGB

Quote from: "KGB"
Stupid idiotic analysis based on mockery and foolishness...


Is this necessary?