Author Topic: Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?  (Read 3293 times)

drfazl

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« on: December 31, 2004, 02:18:33 AM »
May Allah Bless Us All

Dear brothers, can there be an islamic state wherein muslims alone have all the rights - according to the Book? Can there be anything like islamic law when the Book says there is no compulsion in islam? What is your say in this?

regards.
Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

TheNabi

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2004, 02:20:23 AM »
Salaam,

I think if there were an islamic state that anyone living under it would be under it's jurisdiction. I think the compulsion part, in an islamic state, would be things like belief in a god and practice of such things as salaat, charity, zakaat, etc.

Joe
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naxus

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2005, 05:03:02 AM »
Peace bro the nabi n dr fazl i think islamic state should be a state where authority of One God should be accepted n the power in the hand of ruler has to be assume as A God given power whicih should be used for the welfare of peoples n where rights for every one should exist including the non muslims but non muslims doesn,t mean that it include the sunni or shia or any other so called islamic sect because certainly muslim only means muslim the person who belives on God alone n no one will be granted any rights to make a mockery of the God system.Woman with equal right is another part of an islamic system the division of property after the death of a person to his relatives according to Quran the marriage system n the diverce according to Quran these r the few things whicih comes to my mind when i think of an islamic system peace

drfazl

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2005, 05:55:19 AM »
brothers,
may Allah bless

Can there be state as islamic according to quran? As islam means no force, for force destroys peace, can there be anything like islamic law and its enforcement? Please refer verses if any.

regards
Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

TheNabi

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2005, 06:05:46 AM »
Salaam Doc,

Are laws set to be enforced, or are there really no laws [in the context of deeni Allah]?

Joe
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drfazl

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2005, 01:43:45 PM »
May Allah Grant
Joe,

To muslims Allah's command is "Do and then say!, enforcing is not of you". Allah hates those who preach what they do not do. If at all there could be hatred here between us, it is beacause of the same truth, that we post here many things or most things that we do not practise ourselves before saying them out.

Constant confusion and chaos and blood shed will remain resulting in groupism, gangsterism, self proclaimed leadership, Kingdoms and dictatorship shall remain too; worst of all the mockery in the name of democracy shall be thrust on us forever. The Laws of a state are not enacted by the people but by the presidents and his gangsters; their secret hideout being the cabinet hall that we call the parliament where the devisings against the people are hatched out. Backdoor presidents and hypocrites cannot be leaders, for, those who say but won't do; who enact laws but won't abide by them; speak only lies but not the truth can't be leaders of the people, leading a State. This is nothing but tyranny of sort, say, "tyrannical democracy or democratic tyranny" we may call anyway.

We ponder this. All laws are enacted in the secret hiding places, the parliaments where all the worst criminals gangup together and hatch out plans agasint the people who voted and enforce the evil plans as Laws of the State to save themselves from the people. Thus the Laws are not made for the people but for the security of the 'leaders'; the police are government organized mercinaries employed, to arrest and terrorize the public, incase the people demonstrate agaiinst the government; the courts are established, to be influenced and bribed or intimidated again to listen to the leaders' plans against the people but not to the truth that come from the oppressed poor masses that voted them to power.

Man is the same everywhere. There is none like "islamic man" anywhere on the earth. None can force none but one can change the hearts of millions around the world if He is Truthful to God and 'law-abiding' himself. He will be made leader/imam by God by raising him above every one as "dignified and as a personality of promise" sothat there will be no opposition to His choice as we see in our type of 'demockracy' that is a disgrace to the human race itself.

There can never be "islamic state" as per Quran for a muslim has to live amongst the innocent and oppressed; and a people misguided by their treacherous leaders and their goons. We saw Musa went straight to firaun, the cruel king who suppressed his people ruthlessly. He liberated the godfearing from among his people but thereafter he never enforced laws to rule over them, for there is only one King for Man.

114.001 ; 002
Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men; The King of men


Similarly the greatest King Sulaiman never enforced Laws upon his people despite the people in his kingdom followed only their vain desires that shaitan induced in their hearts. But Sulaiman never was disobedient to Allah. Babyl was the place of sorcery, the devil possessed capital city in His kingdom. Though Sulaiman had every power at his disposal, he only sent from His cabinet of ministers two malayikas Harut and Marut to defeat the shaitan's magic with the wisdom of Allah that He had endowed upon them. This alone shall have to bring about a change in the heart of the people under his reign.

002.102
And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, "Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever."


To remind again, there shall never be an islamic state, the best example being the reign of sulaiman, the people being the followers of shaitaans. Had Sulaiman wished he would have made them to obey his rule or he would have even confined shaitan and would have made shaitan and his companions submit to his forve and his command, but he never did. He only sent the two malayikas from his cabinet to beat the magic with the better wisdom of allah. Malayikas said to them not to folow magic for he had better wisdom to show them over the sorcery that they had learned. When they demonstrated the 'sign' they wanted to learn this also for evil purposes. Sensing this, the malayikas warned them against such desire saying to them that he showed them only as a test and as a demonstration that they stop being the followers of shaitan and tread not his path.

There shall never be an islamic state or islamic law that can be enforced upon the people. The existing islamic countries with the shariat laws enforced are shaitanic countries with their satanic rules.

regards all
Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

Commando_X

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2005, 01:47:24 PM »
Quote from: "drfazl"
brothers,
may Allah bless

Can there be state as islamic according to quran? As islam means no force, for force destroys peace, can there be anything like islamic law and its enforcement? Please refer verses if any.

regards


Peace,

You deffinately need to start to read Quran more. There are tons of laws in the Quran that God wants us to act upon and enforce.

drfazl

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2005, 10:28:16 PM »
Quote from: "Commando_X"
"drfazl"
Peace,
You deffinately need to start to read Quran more. There are tons of laws in the Quran that God wants us to act upon and enforce.


Please say what you have to from Quran regarding the enforcement of laws for the civilians even as they do not indulge in the spread of mischief, chaos and bloodshed. And you have said 'tons' of laws you have read in quran as you had spent your life mastering it. Just provide 'one' here from the tons that you have to start with.

regards.
Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

Commando_X

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2005, 05:28:22 AM »
Quote from: "drfazl"
Quote from: "Commando_X"
"drfazl"
Peace,
You deffinately need to start to read Quran more. There are tons of laws in the Quran that God wants us to act upon and enforce.


Please say what you have to from Quran regarding the enforcement of laws for the civilians even as they do not indulge in the spread of mischief, chaos and bloodshed. And you have said 'tons' of laws you have read in quran as you had spent your life mastering it. Just provide 'one' here from the tons that you have to start with.

regards.


Heres one for beginners.

(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors, [24:2-4]

progod

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Islamic State with Islamic Law - Is it Islam?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2005, 08:24:04 AM »
I believe that what the Koran intends is a union of those who believe in God and believe in His message, being the Koran. An Islamic state? If you are referring to Dominion over lands then an Islamic state is not what the Koran commands.

The Koran states basically that no-one is to be coerced into accepting any system of government or philosophy. Therefore those who accept God's law, accept God's law. Those who do not accept it should not be coerced into accepting it.

That means that those who wish to unite under the banner of God's law stay united, accept their duties and the reprecussion of not upholding those duties.

Those who do not wish to accept their duty to God or do not wish to accept the reprecussion of not upholding those duties can opt to leave the union.

You see the the Koran does not encourage the concept of 'Dominion.' Because the dominion is God's. The Koran encourages the concept of Union, whereby God's loyalists use thier means and resources to support, protect and improve one another, living under God's law, examining it and making sure that is God's law and that the source of God's law is the message(s) that God has sent us.


So no, there shouldn't exist any Islamic state. There should exist a grand Union of God's loyalists, uniting under God and upholding His messages.

Godbless,
Anwar
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