Author Topic: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence  (Read 13048 times)

Bender

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2016, 12:35:53 PM »

Who says they would be ignored? Abusive violence is always a crime.
Men are not ignored just because there is an attempt to highlight and reduce domestic violence against women. The only reason why women are mentioned here is that they are the victims in the vast majority of cases. We are talking about Domestic violence here. Not focussing on them would be unfair and also a waste of time. Outside the home, mostly men are involved in violence. I think that gets quite it's fair attention.

Like I said, it there is no need for people to get worried just because the plight of women is talked about in open words. Physical violence is still a crime no matter who committs it and no matter who the victim is. The problem of domestic violence though is a structural one,  a societal one...  and it should be addressed as such.

Yes. Mike Tyson will get help if he gets beaten down outside sports. So will children,  and women.  Who is being beaten up mostly?

Peace bro

Hi Bro,

Green: You are a man of quantity ;)
The problem imho with this approach is that the minority gets forgotten and/or are not taken seriously.

The next scenario happens to often, not only in abuse/violence, but in general:
"911 can I help you?"
"Hi, I am a man an my wife is abusing me"
":rotfl: ok thank you for calling and have a nice day, bye"  beep beep beep.
(911=society in general)

My campaign for president of the world, would be like this:
"domestic violence will have the highest priority"
and not
"domestic violence, especially against women, will have the highest priority"
It just does not feel right to me, no matter what the statistics say.

If I am going to give a group extra privileges then it would be for sure not women just because they are women or because of statistics.
The ones who deserve in my view extra privileges are children,disabled people and elderly because they are not only physically weak but also mentally.
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2016, 12:54:55 PM »
I think Zulf is right. Anybody who gets agresed gets attention, but the fact that violence against women gets, deservedly attntion a such is becaue it is not an individual things but like we would say, a class act. Thy are beaten because they ar women, not because they are any individual or a particular individual. Like rape, women are raped becaue they are women. Men are also raped by other men, but I do not think as a class act, except in Lut's city, or in child porn events which of course should get , and I do not think anybody disagrees with that, I do not know if enough attention, but attention as such, not as an individual event.

Women, within certain mentality are considered as territory,  something on which to exert souveraignty. I definitel think there i something very characeristic in violence against women which makes it different from any chance or individual beating of which of course women can also be the victims, like being assaulted for money by drugaddicts or events like that. In that case they ar agressed by reason alien to their being women, and as a male could also be agessed.

Salaam

GREEN:  >:(
RED: Sorry but I can not agree with this. This is maybe true in some places or whatever, but that is imo not the reason.
I think the reason of abuse/violence is simply because the party who get's oppressed is weaker.
I am stronger then him or her so I can give that one a beating without fearing for myself.

I just did some googling.
According to some paper, in 2005 76% of the victims of domestic violence in The Netherlands was a female.
So this leaves us with 24 % of the victims as males.
So you think those male victims were only victim because they are male?
I do not think so, I think they were victim because they were weaker (and weaker does not always have to be in physical aspect).

I think the whole issue is not about genders but about oppression of the weaker party.
I think if you put in a island 100 women and 100 men, and all women are stronger then the strongest man there, then the women will oppress the men.
Not because they are men but because they are weaker then them.

But of course I did not do any study on it this, it is just what my mind is telling me.
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

mmkhan

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2016, 01:28:54 PM »
I think if you put in a island 100 women and 100 men, and all women are stronger then the strongest man there, then the women will oppress the men.

Peace,

But why only on an island? :hmm
Is there no place on earth except islands? :hmm
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Bender

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2016, 01:37:19 PM »
Peace,

But why only on an island? :hmm
Is there no place on earth except islands? :hmm

 :brickwall:

If I did not know that you were bigger then me then I would jump in plane right now, to oppress you very brutally  :yes
But for my own safety I have decided to stay home.
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

es

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2016, 01:42:56 PM »
Peace,

GREEN:  >:(
RED: Sorry but I can not agree with this. This is maybe true in some places or whatever, but that is imo not the reason.
I think the reason of abuse/violence is simply because the party who get's oppressed is weaker.
I am stronger then him or her so I can give that one a beating without fearing for myself.

I just did some googling.
According to some paper, in 2005 76% of the victims of domestic violence in The Netherlands was a female.
So this leaves us with 24 % of the victims as males.
So you think those male victims were only victim because they are male?
I do not think so, I think they were victim because they were weaker (and weaker does not always have to be in physical aspect).

I think the whole issue is not about genders but about oppression of the weaker party.
I think if you put in a island 100 women and 100 men, and all women are stronger then the strongest man there, then the women will oppress the men.
Not because they are men but because they are weaker then them.

But of course I did not do any study on it this, it is just what my mind is telling me.

I agree with you.

 :peace:

Sajda.

huruf

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2016, 12:35:08 AM »
llcrimes ar ecommitted because the criminal thinks his victim is weaker, because they can get away with it. That isan enabling factor, but not the cause.

In most cases of abuse and beating of children and women it is inside the family, obviously too where they can get aeay with it because of lack of witnesses or fear of worse thing, but that i an enabling factor not the cause. Women may beat up other women or may abuse them also because they can get away with it. Because they do not get along or because they ursue some interest. But the cause of the violence against women and children may be similar and it is not the fact that they are stronger, although that may bea factor,  and please do not say that other violence does not get attention it doe get it. It hs always got it and it continues to be so, but what did not get attention till very recen9tly was the domestic violence andmost domestic if not all violence has been exerted against women and children. That is, it starts with the women and may carry on with the children and sometimes the couple is violent together wit the children. But violence against childrne got earlier attention that violence against women. Somehow it ws understood that in a way it was logical.

S it i false that onlyviolence gainst women is getting attention, in fact it goes on and again the reason is not being stronger that is just the enabling factor, when it is. There is somethign else at work which different from other violence and it is, like Zulf said, a different thing. And if it is getting attention then it was high time it got it.

And musr add if it is becuse some are stronger thn the others ll men or almost would commit violence against women and children but they do not. Far from it, so it is not a question of being weaker or stronger butof having certai compulsions unchecked. It is not a question of men or women, but of certain traits that some men ar prone to with women just because they are women.

Why do you think we get the biblical tale of paradise where God formed the woman FOR the man and then made her subservient to him and the snake annd all that.

There is a mentality, a mental construct behind all that. o to see it is to be blinded.

It is not that victims of either sex are to be neglected, that is not that and it is not hapenning at any rate if it is happening it is not because now the beating of wome is getting attention, and not as much as it believed. It is talked a lot about and ued as logan to get votes but it doe ot get as much as would be thought.

Wome are also vicims of general violence, not of ciolence against women, but the complaint is not bout that because that kind of aggressionmore or less has been attended to always. But the terror for many years suffered by wome within four walls that is somethign else.

You say that men get that too, I do not deny it, but although it is very much dished out as a counter attack against the ight against violence against women it is being handled in communications as a kind of claiing that wome should not get much attention. I have not seen personnlly that kind of abuse of men, but I have seenso many cases against women...I do not say it does not exist because I have not seen it, no I do not say that, but rather that it should be handled properly not as a cause to ubdue the violence specific against women but as its own cause, because probably, it is reallywidespread there should be some cause, specific to it. In that case, abused men and women should be  solidarity cause, ot a competing cause, but it is the kind of thing like th emiseries of some countries people only think of them when some eople speak for Palestine, they are bothered by the fact that eople speak about Palestine, not by the miseries of other countries, but the use those miseries to counter Palestine, ?ee what I mean? Each cause its treatment and struggle, but to use a cause to neglect another cause is not a hlep.

o may be the domestic mistratment of males should be handled as such.

Salaam

Zulf

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2016, 07:39:03 AM »
The next scenario happens to often, not only in abuse/violence, but in general:
"911 can I help you?"
"Hi, I am a man an my wife is abusing me"
":rotfl: ok thank you for calling and have a nice day, bye"  beep beep beep.
(911=society in general)

Well, if the man had said "chasing me with a knife" or "beating me with a hammer" perhaps the response would be proper. Just "abusing" sounds like she is hurling insults towards him.

Quote
If I am going to give a group extra privileges then it would be for sure not women just because they are women or because of statistics.
The ones who deserve in my view extra privileges are children,disabled people and elderly because they are not only physically weak but also mentally.

I don't see how highlighting a common problem and trying to change people's mind is to give undue privileges to someone.

Peace bro Bender O0
If you name me, you negate me.

Zulf

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2016, 08:14:06 AM »
Though off topic, I'll just add that:

Women are at a disadvantage because of a combination of things:

1. Since ancient times, they were physically weaker. In a physical hunter and gatherer society physical strength meant you could dominate somebody. This attitude may have been passed down through DNA. Even today we have the same difference in physical strength, but although strength is not vital in society, it can still be used to bully someone. This is how I speculate at the moment.

2. Women are different from men. Men and women are not identical. One can tell difference between men and women. It seems to be a part of the human mindset to look down on, have fear of, and be hostile towards, anything which is perceived as different from oneself. Minority groups are being oppressed throughout the world. The odd kid in school is bullied. Immigrants are discriminated and slandered against. If men perceive themselves to be stronger than women (by fact, imagination, habit or tradition) they will also bully them.

3. For negative things to be expressed, you need a certain amount of fear, anger (you name it) in combination with lack of compassion, wisdom, imagination and mental restraints. Some men do, not all. So, of course all men do not act or think negatively towards women... just like all human beings are not murderers or robbers. Men are not worse than women. Human beings are dubious in general.

Women are not oppressed just because they are women, per se... there obviously must be more to it. Just like the hispanic immigrant aren't discriminated against just because he is hispanic. The reason is that he is 1) different and 2) in a weaker position, along with the mental prerequisites (fear, mental habits -> prejudice) in the minds of the discriminators. By the way, women are discriminated against in many more ways than just being physcially abused.

So, women are being subjected to harassment because they are easy prey.
Easy prey in terms of 1) physical strength and in terms of 2) moral weakness (I mean that the oppressor is the one morally weak, and so fails to remain good. It becomes easy to oppress when you have no integrity and are slave to your negativities and fears.)

I think it is wise to target ethnic/gender/class discrimination, even though there are other cases, situations and scenarios out there were oppression is taking place. This is not undue privilege for these targeted groups. Unfair treatment should be addressed everywhere, and it should be addressed in name so that it gets highlighted, otherwise it will drown in a Sea of Obscure Average Generality where nothing stands out and nothing can be addressed, and would therefor vanish into the shadows where the oppression may continue.

Cheers all

Feel free to point out any logical flaws of mine
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Comrox

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2016, 08:02:18 PM »
Though off topic, I'll just add that:

Women are at a disadvantage because of a combination of things:

1. Since ancient times, they were physically weaker. In a physical hunter and gatherer society physical strength meant you could dominate somebody. This attitude may have been passed down through DNA. Even today we have the same difference in physical strength, but although strength is not vital in society, it can still be used to bully someone. This is how I speculate at the moment.

2. Women are different from men. Men and women are not identical. One can tell difference between men and women. It seems to be a part of the human mindset to look down on, have fear of, and be hostile towards, anything which is perceived as different from oneself. Minority groups are being oppressed throughout the world. The odd kid in school is bullied. Immigrants are discriminated and slandered against. If men perceive themselves to be stronger than women (by fact, imagination, habit or tradition) they will also bully them.

3. For negative things to be expressed, you need a certain amount of fear, anger (you name it) in combination with lack of compassion, wisdom, imagination and mental restraints. Some men do, not all. So, of course all men do not act or think negatively towards women... just like all human beings are not murderers or robbers. Men are not worse than women. Human beings are dubious in general.

Women are not oppressed just because they are women, per se... there obviously must be more to it. Just like the hispanic immigrant aren't discriminated against just because he is hispanic. The reason is that he is 1) different and 2) in a weaker position, along with the mental prerequisites (fear, mental habits -> prejudice) in the minds of the discriminators. By the way, women are discriminated against in many more ways than just being physcially abused.

So, women are being subjected to harassment because they are easy prey.
Easy prey in terms of 1) physical strength and in terms of 2) moral weakness (I mean that the oppressor is the one morally weak, and so fails to remain good. It becomes easy to oppress when you have no integrity and are slave to your negativities and fears.)

I think it is wise to target ethnic/gender/class discrimination, even though there are other cases, situations and scenarios out there were oppression is taking place. This is not undue privilege for these targeted groups. Unfair treatment should be addressed everywhere, and it should be addressed in name so that it gets highlighted, otherwise it will drown in a Sea of Obscure Average Generality where nothing stands out and nothing can be addressed, and would therefor vanish into the shadows where the oppression may continue.

Cheers all

Feel free to point out any logical flaws of mine

Interesting post Zulf. Well said.

Peace. :)
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Bender

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Re: Beating of kids or threating them with light violence
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2016, 02:27:19 AM »
Well, if the man had said "chasing me with a knife" or "beating me with a hammer" perhaps the response would be proper. Just "abusing" sounds like she is hurling insults towards him.
what you descibe sounds more like an attempt to murder to me  ;)

Quote
I don't see how highlighting a common problem and trying to change people's mind is to give undue privileges to someone.
Peace bro Bender O0

That's advanced math, very difficult to understand  ;)

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant with highlighting/stressing. Isn't it already very well known who the majority of victims are in domestic violence?
I think if you want to highlight a group then maybe it's better to highlight that men and elderly are also victims of domestic violence, I think a lot of people do not know this or do not take it serious.
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen