Was Ramadan called ramadan before the quran was revealed???

[Layth]

Salam Imanajib,

You are correct that "Ramadhan" would have been a known month to the people of the Book before the Quran (especially that the Quran speaks about the change which forbids sexual intercource during days of fasting).

If you do a search on the word by breaking it up into its vowels "Rama" & "Dan", you will find it has Hebrew meaning to it:

Rama = Supreme
Dan = Judge

Month of "Supreme Judgement".

[GODsubmitter]

Thank you Layth!

I think that Muslims and Christians should always look in to the Torah to understand the basis and fundamentals, and only then venture to other "religious" versions

[ayman]

You are correct that "Ramadhan" would have been a known month to the people of the Book before the Quran (especially that the Quran speaks about the change which forbids sexual intercource during days of fasting).
If you do a search on the word by breaking it up into its vowels "Rama" & "Dan", you will find it has Hebrew meaning to it:
Rama = Supreme
Dan = Judge
Month of "Supreme Judgement".

As we all know, all Semitic languages are based on the root system. In Arabic the word "ramadan" comes from the root "rmd". The "an" is simply an intensification that is common in many Arabic words like "furqan", "sultan", etc. We can't haphazardly break up words and try to fit them with other languages. Using your logic, Macaroni can be broken into Maca and Roni and one can then claim that it was invented in Maca by a guy named Roni

Peace,

Ayman

[tlihawa]

I am trying to understand if the lunar calander was already set in place, the "Islamic" names for the months were named and who followed it? To my understanding the Islamic calender started in Mohamads time right?
So when God said "fast for Ramadan", had the lunar calender already begun? And to my understanding, Ramadan is the month the Quran was revealed, but I thought it was revealed in parts? No?
Am I understanding this correctly?....God created the lunar months for Islam? or why do muslims follow a lunar calender? And why isn't any other lunar month mentioned, or if it is, where are the verses?
I'm not trying to challenge anything, just I want answers. I feel sometimes that the quran was not preserved and there are missing verses or rearanged, even altered to fit who ever pieced it together. I hope I'm wrong.

I really just want answers because this wil be my first Ramadan fasting, and I want to make sure it was prescribed by God and not a person.

Salam

Salam Imanajib,
have you read member Ayman's writings? You can find it here :

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg34302#msg34302

I think it will answer most of your questions.

Now I follow the luni-solar calendar, and I found it's more quranic than the other calendars.

For the first time, I thought that the luni solar calendar was too complicated to be understood,  until I realize that the traditional Balinese Hindu farmer use the same calendar for agriculture and for their spiritual life.

http://www.kalenderbali.org/purnamatilem.php

Note : Purnama kasa means 'first full moon of the year' and its occurred right after summer solstice (3rd july, 2012)

You may also find that ancient Greek and jews using these calendar pattern. They also knew about the 19 years cycle, which is I believe the fundamental thing which described in 74:31.

74:29   A signal <lawwāḥatun> to human beings.

74:30   Upon it is nineteen.

74:31   And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be malaika; and We did not make their count (of time period) <ʿiddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say: "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.

The nineteen in 74:30 is not the amount of guardians of fire, since the verse clearly says that it will be a test for the rejecters and  would increase the believer and people of the book's faith.

It doesn't make any sense if we have to go to the hell just to witness the number of malaika to increase our faith. So, it must be something that we could observed during the life time.

And I found that the verse also mention about the people of the book. Yes, they knew about it.

http://www.revelationsofthebible.com/19YearTimeCycle.htm

So I have no doubt that the calendar must be based on Luni-Solar, with not-counted 13th month every two or three year, which will appears 7 times in 19 years cycle.

In astronomy and calendar studies, the Metonic cycle or Enneadecaeteris (from Greek words for nineteen years) is a period of very close to 19 years which is remarkable for being very nearly a common multiple of the solar year and the synodic (lunar) month.

peace

[Noon waalqalami]

You may also find that ancient Greek and jews using these calendar pattern. They also knew about the 19 years cycle, which is I believe the fundamental thing which described in 74:31.

74:29   A signal <lawwāḥatun> to human beings.

74:30   Upon it is nineteen.

74:31   And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be malaika; and We did not make their count (of time period) <ʿiddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say: "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.

The nineteen in 74:30 is not the amount of guardians of fire, since the verse clearly says that it will be a test for the rejecters and  would increase the believer and people of the book's faith.

It doesn't make any sense if we have to go to the hell just to witness the number of malaika to increase our faith. So, it must be something that we could observed during the life time.

Peace -- the sun-moon cycle is saqar? http://corpus.quran.com/concept.jsp?id=saqar

74:27 وما and what أدراك will make you know ما what سقر saqar?
74:28 لا not تبقي it lets remain ولا and not تذر it leaves
74:29 لواحة lawwāḥatun للبشر to the human http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm Lam-Waw-Ha
74:30 عليها over her تسعة nine عشر ten (nineteen)
74:31 وما and not جعلنا We made أصحاب companions النار the fire إلا only ملائكة angels وما and not جعلنا We made عدتهم their count إلا only/except فتنة temptation للذين to those who كفروا disbelieve ليستيقن to ascertain الذين the ones who أوتوا were given الكتاب the book ويزداد and increase الذين the ones who آمنوا believe إيمانا faith ولا and not يرتاب suspicious/doubt الذين the ones who أوتوا were given الكتاب the book والمؤمنون and the believers وليقول and that may say الذين the ones who في in قلوبهم their hearts مرض disease والكافرون and the disbelievers ماذا what had أراد intended الله The God بهذا in this مثلا example? كذلك like that يضل He lets stray الله The God من from يشاء wills ويهدي and He quides من from يشاء wills وما and not يعلم knows جنود soldiers ربك your Lord إلا only هو He وما and not هي it is إلا only/except ذكرى a reminder للبشر to the human
74:32 كلا each والقمر and the moon
74:33 والليل and the night إذ when أدبر departs
74:34 والصبح and the dawn إذا when أسفر it brightens
74:35 إنها that she لإحدى surely one الكبر the old age/greatest
74:36 نذيرا a warner للبشر to the human
74:37 لمن surely from شاء willed منكم from you أن that يتقدم proceeds أو or يتأخر lags
74:38 كل each نفس a soul بما in what كسبتit earned رهينة hostage
74:39 إلا only أصحاب companions اليمين the right
74:40 في in جنات gardens يتساءلون wondering/asking each other
74:41 عن about المجرمين the criminals
74:42 ما what سلككم led you في in سقر saqar?

[good logic]

Peace all

Here is a different translation for you to compare? Let us start from 74:11 for the context.

74:11   Let Me deal with one I created as an individual.   ذَرْنِي وَمَنْ خَلَقْتُ وَحِيدًا
74:12   I provided him with lots of wealth.   وَجَعَلْتُ لَهُ مَالًا مَمْدُودًا
74:13   And children to behold.   وَبَنِينَ شُهُودًا
74:14   I made everything easy for him.   وَمَهَّدْتُ لَهُ تَمْهِيدًا
74:15   Yet, he is greedy for more.   ثُمَّ يَطْمَعُ أَنْ أَزِيدَ
74:16   He stubbornly refused to accept these signs/ proofs.   كَلَّا إِنَّهُ كَانَ لِاءيَتِنَا عَنِيدًا
74:17   I will increasingly punish him.   سَأُرْهِقُهُ صَعُودًا
74:18   For he reflected, then decided.   إِنَّهُ فَكَّرَ وَقَدَّرَ
74:19   Miserable is what he decided.   فَقُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ
74:20   Miserable indeed is what he decided.   ثُمَّ قُتِلَ كَيْفَ قَدَّرَ
74:21   He looked.   ثُمَّ نَظَرَ
74:22   He frowned and whined.   ثُمَّ عَبَسَ وَبَسَرَ
74:23   Then he turned away arrogantly.   ثُمَّ أَدْبَرَ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ
74:24   He said, "This is but clever magic!   فَقَالَ إِنْ هَذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ يُؤْثَرُ
74:25   "This is human made."   إِنْ هَذَا إِلَّا قَوْلُ الْبَشَرِ
74:26   I will commit him to Saqar.   سَأُصْلِيهِ سَقَرَ
74:27   What is Saqar!   وَمَا أَدْرَكَ مَا سَقَرُ
74:28   Thorough and comprehensive.   لَا تُبْقِي وَلَا تَذَرُ
74:29   Obvious to all the people.   لَوَّاحَةٌ لِلْبَشَرِ
74:30   Over it is nineteen.*(19)   عَلَيْهَا تِسْعَةَ عَشَ
74:31   We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.   وَمَا جَعَلنَا أَصْحَبَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَئِكَةً وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ ءامَنُوا إِيمَنًا وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ وَالْمُؤْمنُونَ ولِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ وَالْكَفِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلًا كَذَلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَى لِلْبَشَرِ
74:32   Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.   كَلَّا وَالْقَمَرِ ( Why the Moon? Chapter "Moon"
54:1″ The hour (Resurrection and judgement!) has come close, and the Moon has split.?( 1969, Man landed on the Moon and brought Moon rocks to be analysed!)



54:2″ Then they saw a miracle, but they turned away and said:? Old magic.? ? ( 1974, The discovery of- Code 19- with the aid of computers, proof that the last message from GOD ? Koran? could not have been authored by Man!)
74:33   And the night as it passes.   وَالَّيْلِ إِذْ أَدْبَرَ
74:34   And the morning as it shines.   وَالصُّبْحِ إِذَا أَسْفَرَ
74:35   This is one of the great ones( proofs/ miracles.)*   إِنَّهَا لَإِحْدَى الْكُبَرِ
74:36   A warning to the human race.   نَذِيرًا لِلْبَشَرِ
74:37   For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.   لِمَنْ شَاءَ مِنْكُمْ أَنْ يَتَقَدَّمَ أَوْ يَتَأَخَّرَ
74:38   Every soul is trapped by its sins.   كُلُّ نَفْسٍ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ رَهِينَةٌ
74:39   Except for those on the right.   إِلَّا أَصْحَبَ الْيَمِينِ
74:40   While in Paradise, they will ask.   فِي جَنَّتٍ يَتَسَاءَلُونَ
74:41   About the guilty.   عَنْ الْمُجْرِمِينَ
74:42   "What brought you to this  Saqar?"   مَا سَلَكَكُمْ فِي سَقَرَ

Peace.

[Faithful-Jinn]

Ramadan fasting and pilgrimage were already practiced by many pre-Islam pagan Arabs.

[Bender]

Peace all

Here is a different translation for you to compare? Let us start from 74:11 for the context.

74:31   We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.   وَمَا جَعَلنَا أَصْحَبَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَئِكَةً وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ ءامَنُوا إِيمَنًا وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ وَالْمُؤْمنُونَ ولِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ وَالْكَفِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلًا كَذَلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَى لِلْبَشَرِ
74:32   Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.   كَلَّا وَالْقَمَرِ ( Why the Moon? Chapter "Moon"
54:1″ The hour (Resurrection and judgement!) has come close, and the Moon has split.?( 1969, Man landed on the Moon and brought Moon rocks to be analysed!)



54:2″ Then they saw a miracle, but they turned away and said:? Old magic.? ? ( 1974, The discovery of- Code 19- with the aid of computers, proof that the last message from GOD ? Koran? could not have been authored by Man!)
74:33   And the night as it passes.   وَالَّيْلِ إِذْ أَدْبَرَ

Peace.

Salaam good logic,

Christians? Jews? Man on the moon? Code 19? computers?