Peace sister Marie,
Thank you for your response.
It doesn't matter how many full-moons there are in a year, we are told to only count 12 full moons. This would automatically adjust the cycle every three years since every three years we would get a year with 13 full moons.
Personnaly I understand from 9:36 that there are 12 fixed periods per years not 11 or 13 periods and I think it doesn't imply that we have to only count 12 sha-hr/12 full moons according to your reasoning.
In other words, you don't see the difference between absolute number "3adad" and what The God told us to count "3idat" out of that "3adad". In this case, you have a major problem sister because there aren't exactly 12 crescents/"hilal" or 12 periods between 2 "hilal" per year and there are in fact 25 crescents on average. The period between each two consecutive "hilal" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilal"" periods in a year.
This is impossible because it is not just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit" in 21:33 but the moon in all its phases does.
I did not say it is just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit.
So you are admitting that when The God says "al-qamar" swims in an orbit, He means not just the full-moon. I hope that you can clearly see that you are contradicting your earlier statement that "qamar" just means "full-moon".
The phases of the moon/full moon is the consequence of this movement... That seems logical when Allah speaks about the sun it is not a partial sun, idem for the moon.
You can't say phases of the full-moon. The full-moon only has one phase by definition. The indisputable fact is that "moon/qamar" is not the same as "full-moon/shahr". Like "al-qamar"/the moon, when the sun has a partial or full eclipse it is still the same "sun" that The God speaks about and it didn't cease to exist.
For me I distinguish the full moon (alqamar) and its phases in the light of 36:39 and they are two distinct things.
36:39 doesn't make such distinction. In fact, in 36:39 ALL the phases of the moon are "qamar" and even the "qamar" is LIKE an old curved sheath.
Every sign in the great reading is a good example, especially 7:142 where the term "meeqat" is used. We KNOW that "crescents" are used as "mawaqeet". Moses must have used the "crescent" too because the crescents are the timing devices made by The God for ALL people and this was not a special invention for the Arabs.
I disagree, this is your own deduction not supported by the quran, one can count 40 nights without using any crescent. Don't forget the sun, we can use it to count the number of days and years. Allah doesn't specify the sha-hr for moses, only 40 nights and the sun is sufficient for this task : 40 sunsets for 40 nights.
You are missing the point. The link is provided by the word "meeqat". It is "ahila(t)" that are "mawaqeet". As far as I know, the sun is never described as "meeqat/mawaqeet".
Moreover, if one uses the "hilal" for timing as The God told us, then the count becomes much simpler because one doesn't have to keep track of the days. All one has to do is to count two consecutive full-moons and then one "hilal" and there you have it, 40 nights. The God gives us the most robust and most efficient way possible.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the crescents to a be timing mechanisms for 12 anything because there are in REALITY 24-26 crescents/"ahilat" in a year. Remember "ahila(t)"/crescents mean both the widening crescents and the thinning crescents.
This is what is said in 2:189. alahillat are a timing mechanism for 1) the people and as well as for 2) alhajj.
I think you mean to say "alahillat are a timing mechanism for
people except Moses" according to your understanding of 7:142 above!
Alhajj is in the periods (ash-hurun) which have been appointed = the four restricted) (2:197)
and I consider "sha-hr ramadan" as the first period of the four retricted period. Consequetly, alahillat are a timing mechanism for the period of ramadan.
But there aren't 12 "ahilat" in a year. There are on average 25 "ahilat" in a year. There is no link between "shahr" and "ahilat", linguistically and logically. Like in the case of Moses, the "hilal" is simply used to time the END of the 10 day period of "7ajj" and abstinence.
Some years have 13 full moons doesn't imply that there are 13 period per year. I try only to follow the instruction given in 2:189, alahillat and not the full moon which are a timing mechanism for the four restricted period and also for the first restricted period= the period of ramadan.
The "shahr"/full moon is literally the marker for the four ristricted full moons/"ash-hur" and I already explained the difference between number and count. If you don't see the difference between number and count, then you better forget about "ahilat" because there are in fact on average
25 "ahilat"/crescents in a year!
Moreover, the period between each two consecutive "hilals" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilals"" periods in a year.
Sister Marie, you criticize but do not tell us what the period of "ramadan" or abstinence is. It is always better to provide an alternative when one criticizes something
.
Early automn according to the preservation of land-game (the hemisphere north).
Sister, you ignore that you are starting to count 4 "periods" from "ramadan", so according to you the hunting restriction is early fall-winter. Where I am in the Northern Hemisphere, fall is deer hunting season because that is when they are the most plentiful. Hence, your preservation of land-game argument is not factual.
Moreover, Quraysh, the people of the prophet were traveling during the winter (see chapter 106), therefore it is highly unlikely that winter is the time for "7ajj".
We are also told that the time at which a chapter of the great reading was descended (9:86) was a HOT time of the year (9:81).
Please tell us how long is the period of abstinence.
This period is between two new moons (hilal), in 2004 the period of early automn (ramadan) start from 15 october november till 13 november.
But "hilal" doesn't mean "new moon" and this is a meaning that you are simply forced to assume in order to make it seem as if your interpretation works. The "hilal" means crescent moon (which could be the thinning crescent or the widening crescent) and that is an indisputable fact. Hence, there are on average 25 crescents/"ahila(t)" in a year. The period between each two consecutive "hilals" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilal"" periods in a year.
Sister, please translate the word "ramadan" for us. We have to abstain according to the command. We can't know the command without knowing the meaning.
- extreme heat, rain that comes just before autumn, the period ending summer and begining autumn.
Which meaning out of the above is confirmed by the great reading?
I look forward to your answer.
Paix and all best wishes,
Ayman
