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Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Started by ayman, November 20, 2004, 10:55:00 AM

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mekaeel7

It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site and am not sure if my concern even fits this category but my question is why is it assumed that fasting means forsaking food and drink when the only example of fasting cited in the book is of Mary mother of Eesa and her example of fasting was no talking? Where is the command from Al Ilahe(The god) to abstain from food and drink?

afridi220

Quote from: mekaeel7 on August 16, 2011, 08:16:10 PM
It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site and am not sure if my concern even fits this category but my question is why is it assumed that fasting means forsaking food and drink when the only example of fasting cited in the book is of Mary mother of Eesa and her example of fasting was no talking? Where is the command from Al Ilahe(The god) to abstain from food and drink?

The Holy Quran, Surah Al Baqarah 2:187

?Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint
Peace


People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered; forgive them anyway

mekaeel7

Ok, I am well aware of this ayat but the problem still remains in my mind concerning the fast of Mary mother of Eesa being that she not speak not eating played no part in this description of what fasting entails. The ayat that you quoted does not say "and abstain from eating and drinking and sexual intercourse". Other than the description of the fast of Mary, not speaking, there is no other ayah that describes what exactly entails, is there?

ayman

Quote from: Layth on August 16, 2011, 05:10:09 AMBecause it is not referring to the "crescent", but the full moon (the old palm sheaths fall to both sides, making a full circle shape).

This is incorrect because the passage uses the singular "sheath" while, as you can see, you had to use the plural sheaths to turn it into the sheaths falling on both sides (even this is an incorrect imagery since it doesn't have the same shape of the full round circle of the full-moon).

Since the passage talks about a single sheath then this is clearly referring to the crescent shape.

The passage talks about descending stages "manazil" (from NZL: Descend). Since the moon can only descend in size from the full-moon, then it is clearly talking about the cycle starting from the full-moon and descending in stages until it becomes a crescent.

Peace,

Ayman
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nadeem1


Assalaamu wa alaikum

it returns as a curved sheath (singular). so the new moon is basically the zero moon or the astronomical new moon, which is before the crescent. when there is no moon in the sky.

the main problem is that the moon cycle is not a strict 29 or 30 days. rather 29.53 days. sometimes you will not see the new moon because the new moon might take place when it is day on earth, and by the time the sun sets, the crescent has already appeared.

if the moon returns as a curved sheath. then the next phase after the waning crescent is no moon in the sky, which can be easily confirmed through naked eye and telescope, where neither can contradict each other.

as shahr is something obvious it may be the phase when there is no moon, and it is obvious, even if you go to a mountain you won't see it.

as our calendar is similar to the scripture, the people of the book also use the astonomical new moon which is the zero moon to identify the new month.

Regarding the month of ramadhan, my opinion is there are a couple of definitions for the word ramadh, with i think shortness of rations predominating the heat interpretation.

if we denote rabi al awwal as the start of the grazing season, which starts in april, the grazing season finishes in autumn. there is shortness of rations as the trees shed their foliage. If we take rabia al awwal as april in the grazing season, then if we count down the months till ramadhan in order, we will find that it falls in october which falls in autumn.

in addition the word ramidha is used as a name in muslims and arabs and means white rose. As you know white roses or in general roses are particularly attached with autumn.

http://www.special-dictionary.com/names/r/ramidha_14.htm

that is why we have the famous " autumn rose "

As seasons are based on harvest, i would interpret ramadhan as ramidha or shortness of rations.

Salaam


ayman

Peace Nadeem,

Quote from: nadeem1 on October 05, 2011, 07:34:54 PMit returns as a curved sheath (singular). so the new moon is basically the zero moon or the astronomical new moon, which is before the crescent. when there is no moon in the sky.

Have you ever seen a curved sheath?? It is certainly not invisible like the zero moon or even barely visible like the new moon crescent.

Also, the shape of the curved sheath can be either the waning crescent or the waxing crescent. How did you decide which one?

Peace,

Ayman
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youssef4342

Peace everyone  :peace:

I Just wanted to note that the Qurna states that in sura 9
QuoteThe hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts. Say, "Go ahead and mock. GOD will expose exactly what you are afraid of."(9:64)
يَحْذَرُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ أَن تُنَزَّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُورَةٌ تُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ ۚ قُلِ اسْتَهْزِئُوا إِنَّ اللَّـهَ مُخْرِجٌ مَّا تَحْذَرُونَ ﴿٦٤﴾


Quote"...They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend. (9:81)
Quote
"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed...(2:185)
Based on this evidence, can is it not rightfull to say that the "scorching hot" month is the month of ramadan
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dawngorgeous

Peace All,

I have just gone through this whole thread from when it started years back.  Phew!  What a fantastic read.  Can anyone tell me the names of the 4 restricted months?

Peace.

khodr

Quote from: farida on August 13, 2011, 11:58:12 AM
Salaam

The Qur'an enjoins those who witness the month of Ramadan to fast in it.

How does one witness a month? When you experience the day breaking and ending for around thirty/29 days. So those who live in the s/northern hemisphere do not witness some months, as the sun never sets or rises and so there is no distinct separation at dawn or towards night. This is a basic requirement for starting and ending fast and as one commentator said ? a common principle that any who suffers from impractibility, the relevant provision of law does not apply to him?

Best regards
farida

salam,

In the qur'an are signs for people who use their god given reasoning faculty. 
If one asks how can one witness a month, then this person must continue asking other questions, such as how can one fast a full moon, or how can one fast while at work on the space station.  Yet a better thoughtful question, how can believers fast someday while working on the moon itself.

I mean no ills for anyone.

sincerely
khodr

mirjamnur

Quote from: youssef4342 on December 02, 2011, 01:23:37 PM
Peace everyone  :peace:

I Just wanted to note that the Qurna states that in sura 9

Quote
The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts. Say, "Go ahead and mock. GOD will expose exactly what you are afraid of."(9:64)
يَحْذَرُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ أَن تُنَزَّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُورَةٌ تُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ ۚ قُلِ اسْتَهْزِئُوا إِنَّ اللَّـهَ مُخْرِجٌ مَّا تَحْذَرُونَ ﴿٦٤﴾


Quote
"...They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend. (9:81)
Quote

"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed...(2:185)
Based on this evidence, can is it not rightfull to say that the "scorching hot" month is the month of ramadan

dear youssef
was the Quran not revealed in stages? can we really conclude from the wording of Sura 9 that
1. something was really revealed because the subjunctive is used (The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts.)
2. deduced from the fact that the entire Quran was sent down completely during Ramadan?
If this was so, then your conclusions are correct.
If he was not fully revealed in Ramadan, but over a longer period, then your conclusions are not correct and Ayman could be quite.
how the Koran was sent down? :confused: