Hot/"ramadan" Answer

[belH]

Peace Belalhammad,

I don't want to get into a big discussion but what if I told you that there are Christians who believe that the real message in the Bible points to a luni-solar calendar as well and it's 'tradition' that said otherwise?  http://www.4angelspublications.com/lunisoloar.html 

A Big discussion is what started in this thread 3 weeks ago; A Big discussion that what made the viewer of this thread to reach over 6000 after it was only 800 three weeks ago (this thread started in 2004).

The Majorty of Christian follow Luni-Solar year scince the invantion of the new Calender (Luni-Solar) 500 years ago. The one who are considered nuts are the ones who are holding in thier Book, and they are the ones who call for Lunar Year. Evidences are Easter, Passover, Tabernacles that fall at the same time every year; and that is what Ayman and you are trying to accomplish with Rammadan.

Anyway, the reading is 'muhaiman' over what is before it and there are known falsehoods in these books as they are now so we know to reject those falsehoods only based on the reading. 

The Quran Confirms the other books; hence, the Lunar Year calculation
(6-96, 10-5, 55-5, 39-5). In other words, both the Quran and Torah agree in Lunar Year.
If you are calling the Lunar Year to be a Falsehood, then you are calling the Quran, the Bible and Torah Falsehood.
I warn you, Fear Allah while you have time; otherwise, you will loose the Eternal Life.

[Tlepsh]

Peace

The following translations are taken from Progressive Muslims. Can you please compare these verses and comment? Is studying quran what is meant by Siyam?

73.20 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it, as well as a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So study what is made easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that venture out in the land seeking from God?s bounty, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so study what you can of it. And hold the contact-method and contribute towards betterment and give God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek God?s forgiveness, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.

2.187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.

2.184 A few number of days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew.

[farida]

Salaam Ayman

You're right in the underlined part, my mistake. But still I have another understanding. Maybe it is those women who make believe they are still menustrating, but because, say, of their age, you are in doubt; or they bleed for another reason. Since we have two ways in the verse to count the 3idda, we have to exclude these women from the possibility of being pregnant.

Why would she wait until delivery? How long before she finds she was not pregnant?

As I understand, there are two groups: Those who can't be pregnant (menopausal and those who believe they are not but we doubt that) and those who are pregnant (those who have their menustrations stop during pregnancy and those who continue their menustartion during pregnancy).

Salaam farida

I am not the one wondering what colour the moon is or what size it should be or when in order to fast. I just took the other option and decided to feed the poor. Look into the mirror.

[ayman]

Peace Truthseeker, Samia,

I think the two groups are:
1. Waallaee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum (those women who have despaired/given up from the menstruation, if you are doubtful). This would include all the women who have stopped menstruating because of menopause or other reasons excluding pregnancy but "you" are doubtful as to whether "they" have actually stopped menstruating due to those reasons.
2. Waallaee lam yahidna wa olatual ahmali (those who haven't menstruated and are pregnant). This would include all those women who were menstruating regularly but haven't menstruated since divorce due to pregnancy.
Please not that "waallaee" separates the two groups and there is no "waallaee" between "lam yahidna" and "olatual ahmali".

I agree with group 1.

On group 2, the terms "allaee" and "olatu" serve approximately the same function, the first is "those who" stopped menstruating since the divorce and the second is "those with" a load (carrying a baby). You can reverse the order and say "olatu alahmali wa allaee lam yahidna" and the meaning is the same. So those are two separate categories within group 2. Now for the category of those who are pregnant there is no issue since at the time of the divorce it is known that they are pregnant. So if they are divorced 5 minutes before they give birth, their waiting time is 5 minutes.

There is also very low risk with group 1 since they had already despaired from menstruation prior to the divorce so their waiting period is ZERO or 3 full-moons if you (not they) are in doubt. The highest risk is the other category of group 2. They are the ones who stopped menstruating since the divorce. For those, there are two possibilities:

1. They are pregnant.
2. They are not pregnant.

If they are pregnant then they automatically fall into the category of "pregnant" above.

If they are not pregnant then two things will happen:

1. They may suddenly start menstruating again at anytime. In this case, since they haven't despaired of menstruation, they would fall back into the category of menstruating women who wait for 3 menstruations.
2. They may not menstruate for the 9-10 months maximum gestation period. In this case, after a while they will know for sure that they are not pregnant and hence move into the category of "despaired from menstruation".

Peace,

Ayman

[belH]

Peace All:

Here is another Sign from your Lord:

ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِى رَفَعَ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ بِغَيۡرِ عَمَدٍ۬ تَرَوۡنَہَاۖ ثُمَّ ٱسۡتَوَىٰ عَلَى ٱلۡعَرۡشِۖ وَسَخَّرَ ٱلشَّمۡسَ وَٱلۡقَمَرَۖ كُلٌّ۬ يَجۡرِى لِأَجَلٍ۬ مُّسَمًّ۬ىۚ يُدَبِّرُ ٱلۡأَمۡرَ يُفَصِّلُ ٱلۡأَيَـٰتِ لَعَلَّكُم بِلِقَآءِ رَبِّكُمۡ تُوقِنُونَ (٢)

Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne; He has subjected the sun and the moon! Each one runs for an appointed period. He doth regulate all affairs explaining the Signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. (13-2)

The Sun and The Moon Run for an Appointed and Known Period.

The Known period of the Sun is from Sun Rise to the next Sun Rise?One day. For thousands of year since God Created the Sun, the Sun appears the same way every day. If the Sun has another Appointed Period beside Day and Night calculation, God would have appointed it in Quran or Bible or Torah (by saying that the Month has 30 days or year has 365 days)

The Known and appointed Period of the Moon is the Moon Stages (10-5, 36-39). Thus, from the beginning of the Moon Cycle to the End is the Appointed Period. Such Period is known in the Quran, the Bible, and Torah. And we calculate from the Waxing Crescent (the New Moon) to the Next Waxing Crescent (The Mark of the new next period).

Unless Ayman and his Sect provide a period that is Appointed by God in His Books, They are Misleading you.

DO NOT FOLLOW ANY ONE EXECPT ALLAH?S WORDS

Salam and may God Lead you to the Truth

[afridi220]

By the way Truthseeker1, I'm still waiting for you to post the weather trend in "Madena" as you did for Mecca.

Salaaaaam

[/quote]

salam bilal

Why are you so lost; it was not Mecca, but Madena; The Madena Weather is simmilar to Jordan.
Now go and find the same information for Madena and post it if you are looking after showing the truth
   

It was me I posted that calendar and choose not to respond the reason....

Quran was revealed in Mecca and not in Madina. 

[ayman]

Peace Afridi,

Quran was revealed in Mecca and not in Madina. 

No it wasn't:

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace,

Ayman

[truthseeker11]

Peace everyone,

I was thinking hard about the "shahr" issue and asking God for guidance when suddenly He drew my attention to two key signs that establish once in for all that "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran. I don't think anyone has considered this aspect before so I want to share this with all of you.

I am really excited about this     

17:12 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

This sign makes it crystal clear that a year is solar according to al-quran.

Now let's see the following sign:

9:36 The count of the "shahr" with God is twelve "shahr" in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.

This sign makes it clear that the count of "shahr" is twelve.

Now, if "shahr" means month, and as per al-quran phases of moon can be used as timing mechanism (10:5, 2:189), then let's see how many lunar months can be counted in a solar year (assuming a lunar month is from waxing crescent to waxing crescent, or full-moon to full-moon, both will theoretically make no difference as to the count of lunar months). A solar year can be from summer solstice to summer solstice or winter solstice to winter solstice or the current solar calendar can be used. Again this will make no difference as far as the count of "shahr" is concerned.

2006 lunar months

1. Jan 29 - Feb 27
2. Feb 28 - Mar 28
3. Mar 29 - April 26
4. April 27 - May 26
5. May 27 - Jun 24
6. Jun 25 - Jul 24
7. Jul 25 - Aug 22
8. Aug 23 - Sep 21
9. Sep 22 - Oct 21
10. Oct 22 - Nov 19
11. Nov 20 - Dec 19

As we can clearly see, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2006 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

2007 lunar months

1. Jan 19 - Feb 16
2. Feb 17 - Mar 18
3. Mar 19 - Apr 17
4. Apr 17 - May 15
5. May 16 - Jun 14
6. Jun 15 - Jul 13
7. Jul 14 - Aug 11
8. Aug 12 - Sep 10
9. Sep 11 - Oct 10
10. Oct 11 - Nov 8
11. Nov 9 - Dec 8

As we can clearly see again, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2007 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

In fact, the count of lunar months in a solar year will be 11 for 2 years in a row and then 12 in the third year. But according to al-quran the count of "shahr" is always 12.

Therefore "shahr" CANNOT MEAN LUNAR MONTH in al-quran.

On the other hand, if we count the full-moons in a solar year, WE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO COUNT 12 FULL-MOONS EVERY YEAR and every 3rd year the 13th full-moon will not be counted.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that "shahr" CAN ONLY MEAN FULL-MOON in al-quran.

Indeed, God has detailed everything completely relevant to our guidance as per 17:12. The answer was always staring in the face; it is us who don't understand sometimes! May God guide us all to the truth.

[afridi220]

Peace everyone,

I was thinking hard about the "shahr" issue and asking God for guidance when suddenly He drew my attention to two key signs that establish once in for all that "shahr" can only mean "full-moon" in al-quran. I don't think anyone has considered this aspect before so I want to share this with all of you.

I am really excited about this     

17:12 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

This sign makes it crystal clear that a year is solar according to al-quran.

Now let's see the following sign:

9:36 The count of the "shahr" with God is twelve "shahr" in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.

This sign makes it clear that the count of "shahr" is twelve.

Now, if "shahr" means month, and as per al-quran phases of moon can be used as timing mechanism (10:5, 2:189), then let's see how many lunar months can be counted in a solar year (assuming a lunar month is from waxing crescent to waxing crescent, or full-moon to full-moon, both will theoretically make no difference as to the count of lunar months). A solar year can be from summer solstice to summer solstice or winter solstice to winter solstice or the current solar calendar can be used. Again this will make no difference as far as the count of "shahr" is concerned.

2006 lunar months

1. Jan 29 - Feb 27
2. Feb 28 - Mar 28
3. Mar 29 - April 26
4. April 27 - May 26
5. May 27 - Jun 24
6. Jun 25 - Jul 24
7. Jul 25 - Aug 22
8. Aug 23 - Sep 21
9. Sep 22 - Oct 21
10. Oct 22 - Nov 19
11. Nov 20 - Dec 19

As we can clearly see, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2006 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

2007 lunar months

1. Jan 19 - Feb 16
2. Feb 17 - Mar 18
3. Mar 19 - Apr 17
4. Apr 17 - May 15
5. May 16 - Jun 14
6. Jun 15 - Jul 13
7. Jul 14 - Aug 11
8. Aug 12 - Sep 10
9. Sep 11 - Oct 10
10. Oct 11 - Nov 8
11. Nov 9 - Dec 8

As we can clearly see again, the COUNT of the lunar months in 2007 was 11, NOT 12 as per al-quran.

In fact, the count of lunar months in a solar year will be 11 for 2 years in a row and then 12 in the third year. But according to al-quran the count of "shahr" is always 12.

Therefore "shahr" CANNOT MEAN LUNAR MONTH in al-quran.

On the other hand, if we count the full-moons in a solar year, WE WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO COUNT 12 FULL-MOONS EVERY YEAR and every 3rd year the 13th full-moon will not be counted.

This proves beyond any shadow of doubt that "shahr" CAN ONLY MEAN FULL-MOON in al-quran.

Indeed, God has detailed everything completely relevant to our guidance as per 17:12. The answer was always staring in the face; it is us who don't understand sometimes! May God guide us all to the truth.

Lets wait and see what Bilal and his folower Farida says about that, till that keep smilling

[afridi220]

Peace Afridi,

No it wasn't:

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace,

Ayman

Salam ayman
The so called archaeological evidences about Islam and Quran are all written by Christians and not trust worthy.
For example see this link

http://isaalmasih.net/archaeology-isa/quran-archaeology.html