Author Topic: Hot/"ramadan" Answer  (Read 378562 times)

Nomar

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2590 on: May 01, 2019, 09:16:13 AM »
Salaam Ayman,

Some of the links on the Quran 4 Peace website is no longer clickable.


Peace and sorry for the delayed reply. The equinoxes will only give you the count of half a year and not a year as per 17:12.

In years where you get 13 full-moons between summer solstices, you simply ignore the 13th moon and skip counting it and count only 12 as per 9:36. This realigns the year so that the first full-moon is always the one after the summer solstice.

Peace and best regards,

Ayman

brook

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2591 on: May 01, 2019, 10:57:57 PM »
Peace and sorry for the delayed reply. The equinoxes will only give you the count of half a year and not a year as per 17:12.

In years where you get 13 full-moons between summer solstices, you simply ignore the 13th moon and skip counting it and count only 12 as per 9:36. This realigns the year so that the first full-moon is always the one after the summer solstice.

Peace and best regards,

Ayman

Ayman seems to say that number of full moons is never 13 as per 9:36. But God is not saying that. What God is saying as per 9:36 is that number of full moons is 12 just like He is saying as per 2:258 that God brings the sun from the east.

Does the fact that God brings the sun from the east mean that He brings only the sun from the east? Does He not bring from the east the full moons as well? 

The claim that number of full moons is only 12 belongs to the supporters of the 12-moon lunar YEAR, and the claim is false. God's truth is that you cannot make a YEAR from الشهور - the full moons.

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2592 on: May 02, 2019, 04:40:18 AM »
Ayman seems to say that number of full moons is never 13 as per 9:36. But God is not saying that. What God is saying as per 9:36 is that number of full moons is 12 just like He is saying as per 2:258 that God brings the sun from the east.

Does the fact that God brings the sun from the east mean that He brings only the sun from the east? Does He not bring from the east the full moons as well? 

The claim that number of full moons is only 12 belongs to the supporters of the 12-moon lunar YEAR, and the claim is false. God's truth is that you cannot make a YEAR from الشهور - the full moons.

peace brook ... see difference count (1, 2, 3, ... 10, 11, 12) and number e.g. (12)

9:36 عده ʿiddata/count
9:37 عده ʿiddata/count

23:112 عدد ʿadada/number
72:28 عددا ʿadadan/number of (a number)

Wakas

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2593 on: May 02, 2019, 04:44:11 AM »
peace brook ... see difference count (1, 2, 3, ... 10, 11, 12) and number e.g. (12)

9:36 عده ʿiddata/count
9:37 عده ʿiddata/count

23:112 عدد ʿadada/number
72:28 عددا ʿadadan/number of (a number)

Ayman has discussed this in the past, e.g.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9480.msg39246#msg39246

Original article: http://islam-and-muslims.com/timing.html
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

brook

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2594 on: May 02, 2019, 06:19:50 PM »
peace brook ... see difference count (1, 2, 3, ... 10, 11, 12) and number e.g. (12)

9:36 عده ʿiddata/count
9:37 عده ʿiddata/count

23:112 عدد ʿadada/number
72:28 عددا ʿadadan/number of (a number)

Peace, dear Noon.

Without diacritical marks
عده in 9:36 is the same as
عدد in 23:112.
I mention this because you consider it important.

As for the years where you get 13 full moons between summer solstices,
man has to take it as it is and live the 13th full moon as it is.

Man cannot postpone it or skip it as he has no means.

God has placed it where it is,
and there it stays
no matter what man petends to do. 

The earth makes 1 complete revolution around the sun every 365 plus days,
and that is what makes the YEAR.
The year does not depend on the 12/13 revolutions of the moon around the earth.

The solar year is related to full moons (10:5), yes
but it is not open to man's playing with it.

Full moons do need man's skipping or postponing them in order to fit the year.

Wakas

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2595 on: May 03, 2019, 06:40:08 AM »
peace,


Without diacritical marks
عده in 9:36 is the same as
عدد in 23:112.


False. For example the former has the ta marbuta at the end.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

brook

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2596 on: May 03, 2019, 07:53:59 AM »
peace,

False. For example the former has the ta marbuta at the end.

Yes. I noticed that after I had posted my reply;
thank you for correcting the error.

However, what I said in my reply still counts
from the expression "As for the years..."
to the end of the expression "Full moons do NOT need man's skipping or postponing them in order to fit the year."

This is also my response to Noon's following post.

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2597 on: May 03, 2019, 07:59:28 AM »
Peace, dear Noon.

Without diacritical marks
عده in 9:36 is the same as
عدد in 23:112.

I mention this because you consider it important.

As for the years where you get 13 full moons between summer solstices,
man has to take it as it is and live the 13th full moon as it is.

Man cannot postpone it or skip it as he has no means.

peace brook, have a closer look.

9:36 indeed iddata/count l-shuhuri near/with the god dual ten [i.e. (12)] shahran
i.e. count 12 between solstices not 13 (man-made count).

likewise, the year is solar in all occurrences, never lunar.

9:126 every amin/year solar (sing)
31:14 amayni/year two solar (dual)
2:259 hundred (100) amin/year
likewise, most likely for 200

l-sinina/the years (counted pl. 3 to 9)
10:5 adada/number l-sinina/the years
18:25 three hundred (300) sinina/years
likewise, for 400, 500, ..., 800, 900

sana/years, perhaps for duration?
tens: 10, 20, 30, ..., 70, 80, 90
thousands: 1000, 2000, ..., 50000

46:15 group of (40) sanatan/years
70:4 group of (50) thousand sanatin/years
29:14 thousand sanatin/years except group of (50) aman/year of
this is the only problematic one for it says we sent "a noah"?

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/36/handschrift/163
662-765 CE (95.4%) [Carbon 14 dated by Coranica]



peace and all the best!

Layth

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2598 on: May 05, 2019, 11:04:52 AM »
Salam,

The true fast is in December for 10 days only.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

brook

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Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« Reply #2599 on: May 05, 2019, 07:59:00 PM »
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=2018&country=74

--------1----------2-----3-------4-------5-------6-------7------8------9------10------11-----12-----13---
A.Jun 28, 2018-Jul 27-Aug 26-Sep 25-Oct 24-Nov 23-Dec 22-Jan 21-Feb 19-Mar 21-Apr 19-May 19-Jun 17
B.Jul 17, 2019-Aug 15-Sep 14-Oct 14-Nov 12-Dec 12-Jan 10-Feb 09-Mar 09-Apr 08-May 07-Jun 05 ..........
C.Jul 05, 2020-Aug 03-Sep 02-Oct 02-?

A, B, C are not a year;
they are each a series of full moons between summer solstices;
and each one of them begins on Shahr Ramadan (Scorching).

The year begins on June 21, when the longest daytime is lived.

The first 4 full moons of each series
are arba?AAtun hurum (9:36), restricted four, as hunting is restricted in them.

If you want to avoid the restriction,
you postpone the last non-restricted full moon of a series, e.g. Jun 17, 2019
and live it in place of the following first restricted full moon, e.g. July 17, 2019
or you postpone Jun 05, 2020 and live it in place of July 05, 2020.