Author Topic: Hot/"ramadan" Answer  (Read 378017 times)

ayman

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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2004, 07:13:55 AM »
Peace brothers Hafeez and Peace,

Quote from: "hafeez kazi"
Excellent, super, informative  and thoughtful.


Quote from: "Peace"
I found your article quite informative, and it seems like the best understanding I've heard so far. Great work!


Thank you for your kind comments and encouragement. Ultimate gratitude is to The God who descended the book and didn't allow any deviation in it.

It is brother Zein who got me thinking about this topic again after I had set it aside a while back when I reached a dead end. The reminder that he provided me led to this article and finally solving this puzzle.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

Danish

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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2004, 09:09:52 AM »
Peace Ayman,

Quote from: "ayman"
...it makes perfect sense that Quraysh would travel in "sayf" before the start of the restricted full-moons in "qayth" to buy goods to sell at the "7ajj". After the end of the restricted full-moons, it would also make sense that they use the money they earned during trading and travel to buy goods.

Please claify what does "restricted full-moons" mean? What has trading and traveling got to do with "restricted full-moons"?

Thanks and GOD Bless.

ayman

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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 10:57:29 AM »
Peace Danish,

Quote from: "Danish"
Please claify what does "restricted full-moons" mean? What has trading and traveling got to do with "restricted full-moons"?


The restriction full-moons is counting a period spanning four full-moons starting with the full-moon of scorching heat/"ramadan". During that period,  hunting wildlife is restricted and the gathering of the "7ajj"/debate takes place.

Chapter 106 addresses the people of the prophet. They were making two trips one in "sayf" and another in "shetaa". Those cannot be the same times as the time of "7ajj" where they have to be present (not traveling) so that they can conduct their business. More confirmation that people worked all year so that they can sell their products at the "7ajj"/debate is in 28:27 where hiring is done for the purpose of the "7ajj"/debate.

I hope this helps clarify things.

Peace,

Ayman

marie

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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2004, 06:21:47 PM »
Peace brother Ayman, all,


Allah says "The count of the shuhoori with God is twelve shahran..." [9:36],
if "shahr" =  the moon, some years have 13 full moons
Question about article "What is Religion?"

I disagree with your understanding about the word meeqat in 7:142, another word with the same root is used in 4:103 (kitab mawqoot/the timed book)
In 7:142, we read "fatamma meeqaturabbihi arbaAAeena laylatan" doesn't mean that "meeqat" indicates only the end of a period.

The complete term would take forty nights = fatamma meeqaturabbihi arbaAAeena laylatan

meeqat = 40 nights (a period)

For me alahilat/new moon or crescent indicates the begenning and the end of the four restricted shahr (aljajj) among the twelve months in a year (9:36)

I don't find any quranic evidence that "alqamar/the moon"  = shahr.

Maybe 58:4 brings an additionnal information about the word "shahr"

58:4. If he cannot find any, then he shall fast two consecutive months (shahrayni mutatabiAAayni) before any sexual contact between them. If he cannot, then he shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would believe in God and His messenger. And these are the limits set by God. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.

"shahrayni mutatabiAAayni/two consecutive shahr" and "to feed sixty poor people" is a coincidence or not?

I don't mean that shahr = 30 days but 58:4 can clarifiy the length of the month.

In 2:184, should we understand that for those who can do so but with difficulty, then to feed the same number of indigents than the number of days of abstinence (shahr ramadhan)?

1 day of abstinence  = to feed 1 indigent

2 days of abstinence  = 2 indigents

...


2:184. A few number of days. But, if any of you is sick or is traveling, the number of days should be made up later. For those who can go through Abstinence only with hardship, there is compensation, the feeding of an indigent. Any additional charity will mean additional reward. However, if you knew better, the training course of Abstinence is good for you.


Looking for your thoughts


Thanks

Marie
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hafeez kazi

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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2004, 08:22:23 PM »
peace all.

In SULTANATE OF OMAN (MUSCAT) the festival of KHAREEF is celeberated from 15TH JULY TO 14TH AUGUST, every year. Many visitors come from neighbouring countries like Dubai, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc.

I do not know why the Omanis do not follow the Islamic calendar, but follow the Christian calendar.

thanks.

ayman

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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2004, 01:34:48 PM »
Peace sister Marie, all,

Quote from: "marie"
Allah says "The count of the shuhoori with God is twelve shahran..." [9:36],
if "shahr" =  the moon, some years have 13 full moons
Question about article "What is Religion?"


We should only count 12 even in the years where there are 13. Hence, we should simply not count the 13th moon. The difference between absolute number ("3adad") and count ("3idat") was explained in more details in the article. Please go over those details again and let me know if there is anything that specifically requires more clarification.

Quote from: "marie"
I disagree with your understanding about the word meeqat in 7:142, another word with the same root is used in 4:103 (kitab mawqoot/the timed book)
In 7:142, we read "fatamma meeqaturabbihi arbaAAeena laylatan" doesn't mean that "meeqat" indicates only the end of a period.


It doesn't mean only the start of a period either. So we agree that it could mean EITHER end of a period OR start of a period.

Quote from: "marie"
The complete term would take forty nights = fatamma meeqaturabbihi arbaAAeena laylatan

meeqat = 40 nights (a period)


That is a perfect example of "meeqat" used to describe the END of a period. In this case, the end of a 40 night period. It is IMPOSSBILE to time a 40 day period with the "hilal" as a start and at the end. So how was "hilal" a timing device for Moses? It is a timing device because the extra 10 days is EXACTLY how long extra it takes for two consecutive full-moons to reach the "hilal" stage again. Hence, Like us Moses used the "hilal" as a timing device.

Remember, The God didn't just make up special timing devices for the 1400 year old Arabs. The same logical principles and timing devices were applied by previous messengers.

Quote from: "marie"
For me alahilat/new moon or crescent indicates the begenning and the end of the four restricted shahr (aljajj) among the twelve months in a year (9:36)


9:36 doesn't mention "ahilat" so you must be refering to the wrong verse.

Quote from: "marie"
I don't find any quranic evidence that "alqamar/the moon"  = shahr.


What do you think "shahr" means? How can we witness a "shahr"?

Quote from: "marie"
Maybe 58:4 brings an additionnal information about the word "shahr"

58:4. If he cannot find any, then he shall fast two consecutive months (shahrayni mutatabiAAayni) before any sexual contact between them. If he cannot, then he shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would believe in God and His messenger. And these are the limits set by God. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.

"shahrayni mutatabiAAayni/two consecutive shahr" and "to feed sixty poor people" is a coincidence or not?

I don't mean that shahr = 30 days but 58:4 can clarifiy the length of the month.

In 2:184, should we understand that for those who can do so but with difficulty, then to feed the same number of indigents than the number of days of abstinence (shahr ramadhan)?

1 day of abstinence  = to feed 1 indigent

2 days of abstinence  = 2 indigents

...

2:184. A few number of days. But, if any of you is sick or is traveling, the number of days should be made up later. For those who can go through Abstinence only with hardship, there is compensation, the feeding of an indigent. Any additional charity will mean additional reward. However, if you knew better, the training course of Abstinence is good for you.


Firstly, 2:184 doesn't say how many indigents to feed. From the Arabic original and even the English translation you provided, it seems like it is feeding just ONE indigent for the 10 days (i.e., 10 days of abstinence  =  feed 1 indigent)

Abstaining for the period of two consecutive full moons means abstaining for ONE full-moon cycle (i.e., 1 day of abstinence = feeding of 2 indigents).

Secondly, please see 5:89 where feeding 10 indigents is equivalent to abstaining for 3 days.

So here we have 1 day of abstinence = 3.33 indigents!

Hence, indigents and days of abstinence are not the same and their ratio depends on what it is we are compensating for.

I hope this was useful.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

marie

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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2004, 07:14:23 PM »
Peace brother Ayman, all,

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Quote from: "ayman"
Peace sister Marie, all,

Quote from: "marie"
Allah says "The count of the shuhoori with God is twelve shahran..." [9:36],
if "shahr" =  the moon, some years have 13 full moons
Question about article "What is Religion?"


We should only count 12 even in the years where there are 13. Hence, we should simply not count the 13th moon. The difference between absolute number ("3adad") and count ("3idat") was explained in more details in the article. Please go over those details again and let me know if there is anything that specifically requires more clarification.


Maybe I'm wrong but  I disagree with you and I think that 9:36 is  a proof that the word "sha-hr" doesn't mean the full moon because we can't count 12 full moon every year. I respect your view and as I already said it, I consider "alqamar" as the full moon which  becomes through stages like an old curved sheath (36:39).

Quote

Quote from: "marie"
I disagree with your understanding about the word meeqat in 7:142, another word with the same root is used in 4:103 (kitab mawqoot/the timed book)
In 7:142, we read "fatamma meeqaturabbihi arbaAAeena laylatan" doesn't mean that "meeqat" indicates only the end of a period.


It doesn't mean only the start of a period either. So we agree that it could mean EITHER end of a period OR start of a period.


What is said in 7:142 is not a good example to solve our problem, Allah didn't appoint for Moses a specified sha-hr completed with ten but only forty nights whatever the stage of the moon.

About hilal (new moon or crescent), I consider it both the start and the end of a period or the end and the start of a period:

sha-hr 12........................sha-hr 1..............................sha-hr 2.............
---------------->hilal1--------------------> Hilal2----------------------->Hilal 3

For example Hilal 1 is the end of the 12nd  sha-hr and the start of the first sha-hr

Hilal 2 is the end of the first sha-hr and the start of the second sha-hr

Hilal 1 and 2 are the start and the end of the first sha-hr.


Quote
Quote from: "marie"
I don't find any quranic evidence that "alqamar/the moon"  = shahr.


What do you think "shahr" means? How can we witness a "shahr"?


This is a good question and I will try to answer it insha'Allah.

We read:
Shahru ramadana (2:185)

Inna AAiddata (the count)  alshshuhoori AAinda Allahi ithna AAashara (12) shahran (9:36)

minha arbaAAatun (Four of these twelve sha-hr) hurumun (are restricted) (9:36)

Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetu lilnnasi waalhajji (2:189)

"al-ahillati" are a timing mechanism for 1) the people as well as for 2) Alhajj.

"Alhajju" ashhurun maAAloomatun (which have been appointed) (2:197) which correspond to the four restricted ashhurun.

"al-ahillati" are a timing mechanism for the twelve sha-hr.


In 2:185 we are told "whoever of you obseve/witness alshsha-hra, then let him abstain it"

"alshsha-hra" refers to "shahru ramadana/the period of ramadan", I prefer to use a period for the word "sha-hr" instead of a month or cycle of moon.


There are twelve periods per year which have a start and an end


When I observe a period of ramadan, I have to abstain it; to abstain this period which is one period among the twelve periods in the year.

How to determine the start and the end of any period among the tewelve periods, the response is provided in 2:189.

We are not asked to abstain the full moon or the new moon or the moon but a period of ramadan.

Allah didn't ask us to abstain 10 days (it is only guessing work) but to abstain a period of ramadan.

Quote

Quote
2:184. A few number of days. But, if any of you is sick or is traveling, the number of days should be made up later. For those who can go through Abstinence only with hardship, there is compensation, the feeding of an indigent. Any additional charity will mean additional reward. However, if you knew better, the training course of Abstinence is good for you.


Abstaining for the period of two consecutive full moons means abstaining for ONE full-moon cycle (i.e., 1 day of abstinence = feeding of 2 indigents).


I disagree "shahrayni mutatabiAAayni" in 58:4 correspond to two periods among the twelve periods in the year.

For the moment I don't adhere to the meaning of ramadan as extreme heat" and I lean towards early autumn. I think a period of ramadan is the first period of the year and occurs during the first season.

Maybe I'm wrong but it is simple to abstain during early automn than extreme heat; "Allah wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship"(2:185).


The God knows best

Marie
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http://hanif.free.fr/

ayman

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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2004, 11:49:37 PM »
Peace sister Marie, all,

Quote from: "marie"
Maybe I'm wrong but  I disagree with you and I think that 9:36 is  a proof that the word "sha-hr" doesn't mean the full moon because we can't count 12 full moon every year.


It doesn't matter how many full-moons there are in a year, we are told to only count 12 full moons. This would automatically adjust the cycle every three years since every three years we would get a year with 13 full moons.

Quote from: "marie"
I respect your view and as I already said it, I consider "alqamar" as the full moon which  becomes through stages like an old curved sheath (36:39).


This is impossible because it is not just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit" in 21:33 but the moon in all its phases does.

Quote from: "marie"
What is said in 7:142 is not a good example to solve our problem, Allah didn't appoint for Moses a specified sha-hr completed with ten but only forty nights whatever the stage of the moon.


Every sign in the great reading is a good example, especially 7:142 where the term "meeqat" is used. We KNOW that "crescents" are used as "mawaqeet". Moses must have used the "crescent" too because the crescents are the timing devices made by The God for ALL people and this was not a special invention for the Arabs.

Quote from: "marie"
About hilal (new moon or crescent), I consider it both the start and the end of a period or the end and the start of a period:

sha-hr 12........................sha-hr 1..............................sha-hr 2.............
---------------->hilal1--------------------> Hilal2----------------------->Hilal 3

For example Hilal 1 is the end of the 12nd  sha-hr and the start of the first sha-hr

Hilal 2 is the end of the first sha-hr and the start of the second sha-hr

Hilal 1 and 2 are the start and the end of the first sha-hr.


According to 7:142, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do timing/"meeqat" of a 40 day period with crescent/"hilal" BOTH at the start and at the end. You have to choose either start or end. Hence, crescent/"ahilat" are used to time EITHER the start OR the end of a period but not BOTH.

Quote from: "marie"
Quote
What do you think "shahr" means? How can we witness a "shahr"?


This is a good question and I will try to answer it insha'Allah.

We read:
Shahru ramadana (2:185)

Inna AAiddata (the count)  alshshuhoori AAinda Allahi ithna AAashara (12) shahran (9:36)

minha arbaAAatun (Four of these twelve sha-hr) hurumun (are restricted) (9:36)

Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetu lilnnasi waalhajji (2:189)

"al-ahillati" are a timing mechanism for 1) the people as well as for 2) Alhajj.

"Alhajju" ashhurun maAAloomatun (which have been appointed) (2:197) which correspond to the four restricted ashhurun.

"al-ahillati" are a timing mechanism for the twelve sha-hr.


It is IMPOSSIBLE for the crescents to a be timing mechanisms for 12 anything because there are in REALITY 24-26 crescents/"ahilat" in a year. Remember "ahila(t)"/crescents mean both the widening crescents and the thinning crescents.

Quote from: "marie"
In 2:185 we are told "whoever of you obseve/witness alshsha-hra, then let him abstain it"

"alshsha-hra" refers to "shahru ramadana/the period of ramadan", I prefer to use a period for the word "sha-hr" instead of a month or cycle of moon.

There are twelve periods per year which have a start and an end

When I observe a period of ramadan, I have to abstain it; to abstain this period which is one period among the twelve periods in the year.

How to determine the start and the end of any period among the tewelve periods, the response is provided in 2:189.


"Period" is not the dictionary meaning of "shahr", so we must have very strong evidence from the great reading to support that it means "period".

I looked in 2:189 but I didn't find any answer on how we can determine 12 periods using the 24-26 crescents/"ahila(t)" as timing devices.

Could you please kindly translate "shahr" as "period" instead of leaving it as "shahr" and let us know how we can determine the start and end of any "period" among the twelve "periods" using the 24-26 crescents/"ahila(t)" in a year.

Quote from: "marie"
We are not asked to abstain the full moon or the new moon or the moon but a period of ramadan.

Allah didn't ask us to abstain 10 days (it is only guessing work) but to abstain a period of ramadan.


Sister Marie, you criticize but do not tell us what the period of "ramadan" or abstinence is. It is always better to provide an alternative when one criticizes something.

Please tell us how long is the period of abstinence.

Quote from: "marie"
I disagree "shahrayni mutatabiAAayni" in 58:4 correspond to two periods among the twelve periods in the year.


Please tell us what those mysterious "periods" are.

Quote from: "marie"
For the moment I don't adhere to the meaning of ramadan as extreme heat" and I lean towards early autumn. I think a period of ramadan is the first period of the year and occurs during the first season.

Maybe I'm wrong but it is simple to abstain during early automn than extreme heat; "Allah wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship"(2:185).


Sister, please translate the word "ramadan" for us. We have to abstain according to the command. We can't know the command without knowing the meaning.

Thanks and all best wishes and peace,

Ayman

marie

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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2004, 02:18:57 AM »
Peace brother Ayman,

Quote from: "ayman"

It doesn't matter how many full-moons there are in a year, we are told to only count 12 full moons. This would automatically adjust the cycle every three years since every three years we would get a year with 13 full moons.


Personnaly I understand from 9:36 that there are 12 fixed periods per years not 11 or 13 periods and I think it doesn't imply that we have to only count 12 sha-hr/12 full moons according to your reasoning.

Quote
Quote from: "marie"
I respect your view and as I already said it, I consider "alqamar" as the full moon which  becomes through stages like an old curved sheath (36:39).


This is impossible because it is not just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit" in 21:33 but the moon in all its phases does.


I did not say it is just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit. The phases of the moon/full moon is the consequence of this movement... That seems logical when Allah speaks about the sun it is not a partial sun, idem for the moon.

For me I distinguish the full moon (alqamar) and its phases in the light of 36:39 and they are two distinct things.

Quote
Every sign in the great reading is a good example, especially 7:142 where the term "meeqat" is used. We KNOW that "crescents" are used as "mawaqeet". Moses must have used the "crescent" too because the crescents are the timing devices made by The God for ALL people and this was not a special invention for the Arabs.


I disagree, this is your own deduction not supported by the quran, one can count 40 nights without using any crescent. Don't forget the sun, we can use it to count the number of days and years. Allah doesn't specify the sha-hr for moses, only 40 nights and the sun is sufficient for this task : 40 sunsets for 40 nights.


Quote
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the crescents to a be timing mechanisms for 12 anything because there are in REALITY 24-26 crescents/"ahilat" in a year. Remember "ahila(t)"/crescents mean both the widening crescents and the thinning crescents.


This is what is said in 2:189. alahillat are a timing mechanism for 1) the people and as well as for 2) alhajj.
Alhajj is in the periods (ash-hurun) which have been appointed = the four restricted) (2:197)  
and I consider "sha-hr ramadan" as the first period of the four retricted period. Consequetly, alahillat are a timing mechanism for the period of ramadan.

Some years have 13 full moons doesn't imply that there are 13 period per year. I try only to follow the instruction given in 2:189, alahillat and not the full moon which are a timing mechanism for the four restricted period and also for the first restricted period= the period of ramadan.

Quote

"Period" is not the dictionary meaning of "shahr", so we must have very strong evidence from the great reading to support that it means "period".


Let us be patient to verify this meaning in the light of the quran.


Quote
Sister Marie, you criticize but do not tell us what the period of "ramadan" or abstinence is. It is always better to provide an alternative when one criticizes something
.

Early automn according to the preservation of land-game (the hemisphere north).

Quote
Please tell us how long is the period of abstinence.


This period is between two new moons (hilal), in 2004 the period of early automn (ramadan) start from 15 october november till 13 november.


Quote
Sister, please translate the word "ramadan" for us. We have to abstain according to the command. We can't know the command without knowing the meaning.


- extreme heat, rain that comes just before autumn, the period ending summer and begining autumn.

Allah knows best

Marie
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ayman

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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2004, 04:42:38 AM »
Peace sister Marie,

Thank you for your response.

Quote from: "marie"
Quote from: "ayman"

It doesn't matter how many full-moons there are in a year, we are told to only count 12 full moons. This would automatically adjust the cycle every three years since every three years we would get a year with 13 full moons.


Personnaly I understand from 9:36 that there are 12 fixed periods per years not 11 or 13 periods and I think it doesn't imply that we have to only count 12 sha-hr/12 full moons according to your reasoning.


In other words, you don't see the difference between absolute number "3adad" and what The God told us to count "3idat" out of that "3adad". In this case, you have a major problem sister because there aren't exactly 12 crescents/"hilal" or 12 periods between 2 "hilal" per year and there are in fact 25 crescents on average. The period between each two consecutive "hilal" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilal"" periods in a year.

Quote from: "marie"
Quote
This is impossible because it is not just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit" in 21:33 but the moon in all its phases does.


I did not say it is just the "full moon" that swims in an orbit.


So you are admitting that when The God says "al-qamar" swims in an orbit, He means not just the full-moon. I hope that you can clearly see that you are contradicting your earlier statement that "qamar" just means "full-moon".

Quote from: "marie"
The phases of the moon/full moon is the consequence of this movement... That seems logical when Allah speaks about the sun it is not a partial sun, idem for the moon.


You can't say phases of the full-moon. The full-moon only has one phase by definition. The indisputable fact is that "moon/qamar" is not the same as "full-moon/shahr". Like "al-qamar"/the moon, when the sun has a partial or full eclipse it is still the same "sun" that The God speaks about and it didn't cease to exist.

Quote from: "marie"
For me I distinguish the full moon (alqamar) and its phases in the light of 36:39 and they are two distinct things.


36:39 doesn't make such distinction. In fact, in 36:39 ALL the phases of the moon are "qamar" and even the "qamar" is LIKE an old curved sheath.

Quote from: "marie"
Quote
Every sign in the great reading is a good example, especially 7:142 where the term "meeqat" is used. We KNOW that "crescents" are used as "mawaqeet". Moses must have used the "crescent" too because the crescents are the timing devices made by The God for ALL people and this was not a special invention for the Arabs.


I disagree, this is your own deduction not supported by the quran, one can count 40 nights without using any crescent. Don't forget the sun, we can use it to count the number of days and years. Allah doesn't specify the sha-hr for moses, only 40 nights and the sun is sufficient for this task : 40 sunsets for 40 nights.


You are missing the point. The link is provided by the word "meeqat". It is "ahila(t)" that are "mawaqeet". As far as I know, the sun is never described as "meeqat/mawaqeet".

Moreover, if one uses the "hilal" for timing as The God told us, then the count becomes much simpler because one doesn't have to keep track of the days. All one has to do is to count two consecutive full-moons and then one "hilal" and there you have it, 40 nights. The God gives us the most robust and most efficient way possible.

Quote from: "marie"
Quote
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the crescents to a be timing mechanisms for 12 anything because there are in REALITY 24-26 crescents/"ahilat" in a year. Remember "ahila(t)"/crescents mean both the widening crescents and the thinning crescents.


This is what is said in 2:189. alahillat are a timing mechanism for 1) the people and as well as for 2) alhajj.


I think you mean to say "alahillat are a timing mechanism for people except Moses" according to your understanding of 7:142 above!

Quote from: "marie"
Alhajj is in the periods (ash-hurun) which have been appointed = the four restricted) (2:197)  
and I consider "sha-hr ramadan" as the first period of the four retricted period. Consequetly, alahillat are a timing mechanism for the period of ramadan.


But there aren't 12 "ahilat" in a year. There are on average 25 "ahilat" in a year. There is no link between "shahr" and "ahilat", linguistically and logically. Like in the case of Moses, the "hilal" is simply used to time the END of the 10 day period of "7ajj" and abstinence.

Quote from: "marie"
Some years have 13 full moons doesn't imply that there are 13 period per year. I try only to follow the instruction given in 2:189, alahillat and not the full moon which are a timing mechanism for the four restricted period and also for the first restricted period= the period of ramadan.


The "shahr"/full moon is literally the marker for the four ristricted full moons/"ash-hur" and I already explained the difference between number and count. If you don't see the difference between number and count, then you better forget about "ahilat" because there are in fact on average 25 "ahilat"/crescents in a year!

Moreover, the period between each two consecutive "hilals" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilals"" periods in a year.

Quote from: "marie"
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Sister Marie, you criticize but do not tell us what the period of "ramadan" or abstinence is. It is always better to provide an alternative when one criticizes something
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Early automn according to the preservation of land-game (the hemisphere north).


Sister, you ignore that you are starting to count 4 "periods" from "ramadan", so according to you the hunting restriction is early fall-winter. Where I am in the Northern Hemisphere, fall is deer hunting season because that is when they are the most plentiful. Hence, your preservation of land-game argument is not factual.

Moreover, Quraysh, the people of the prophet were traveling during the winter (see chapter 106), therefore it is highly unlikely that winter is the time for "7ajj".

We are also told that the time at which a chapter of the great reading was descended (9:86) was a HOT time of the year (9:81).

Quote from: "marie"
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Please tell us how long is the period of abstinence.


This period is between two new moons (hilal), in 2004 the period of early automn (ramadan) start from 15 october november till 13 november.


But "hilal" doesn't mean "new moon" and this is a meaning that you are simply forced to assume in order to make it seem as if your interpretation works. The "hilal" means crescent moon (which could be the thinning crescent or the widening crescent) and that is an indisputable fact. Hence, there are on average 25 crescents/"ahila(t)" in a year. The period between each two consecutive "hilals" is either about 3 days (between the thinning and the widening "hilals") or 25 days (between the widening and the thining "hilals"). Hence, there are in fact about 24 "between 2 "hilal"" periods in a year.

Quote from: "marie"
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Sister, please translate the word "ramadan" for us. We have to abstain according to the command. We can't know the command without knowing the meaning.


- extreme heat, rain that comes just before autumn, the period ending summer and begining autumn.


Which meaning out of the above is confirmed by the great reading?

I look forward to your answer.

Paix and all best wishes,

Ayman