Author Topic: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?  (Read 3916 times)

Fadiva

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2020, 06:30:56 AM »
3."...and upon those who are capable of it* (i.e. sawm) a ransom feeding a poor person..."
*with the implication being they choose not to.



This third option seems to make more sense.
However, one can ask this question ( including the 3 options) : What about the poor people ? Are they concerned by syam ? A poor who cannot afford to have food can't syam, right ?

translations (option 2 and 3) raises another question : what about people with chronic illnesses ? They can't fast all the year for some of them if syam means fastIng.

However many exegetes claim 2:185 abrogated 2:184 because 2:185 does not mention this exemption thus they take this to mean it is not longer allowed and sawm is obligatory upon all except those ill/traveling

Some people are not able to fast at all. Seems difficult  (if not impossible) for them to fast another days. How can people decide what verse abrogates another ( if really some verses agrogate others verses).

Wakas

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2020, 08:01:36 AM »
peace,

Welcome to the forum.

A poor who cannot afford to have food can't syam, right ?

If the poor person is alive then they are getting food somehow so I do not see why the verse would not be applicable to them also.

Quote
translations (option 2 and 3) raises another question : what about people with chronic illnesses ? They can't fast all the year for some of them if syam means fastIng.

Let's take diabetes type 1 as an example (type 2 is completely reversible for most people through diet/lifestyle changes), and let's say this type 1 diabetic needs regular insulin injections to maintain blood-sugar. I personally do not consider these injections, or even a prescription drug pill, as a food/drink so they may still be able to sawm.

If there genuinely is a lifelong condition which makes fasting impossible or risky then there is few ways to look at this verse:

Substitute other days to fast and if there is no day when one is not ill then one does not need to fast and the rest of the verse may not apply (as it only talks of those who are able to do sawm, not those unable). Bear in mind verses [6:165 one can only work with that they have i.e. case-dependent to some degree, 64:16 do what one is able, 48:17 leeway for those ill etc].

Or interestingly, the verse could cover such a scenario as it says "whoever volunteers better" so if one thinks they do not fall into any category or will never be able to substitute days then they can volunteer better than doing nothing if they wish to, each to their own capacity.

As always, this is my take. Each to their own.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Fadiva

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2020, 01:23:23 PM »
peace,

Welcome to the forum.

If the poor person is alive then they are getting food somehow so I do not see why the verse would not be applicable to them also.


Thank you. Peace.
My fault. I didn't express explicitely what I had in mind: I was wondering how to consider the third option of translation if a poor ( needy) person decided not to syam as he can't compensate by feeding another poor person unless his situation changes.

Let's take diabetes type 1 as an example (type 2 is completely reversible for most people through diet/lifestyle changes), and let's say this type 1 diabetic needs regular insulin injections to maintain blood-sugar. I personally do not consider these injections, or even a prescription drug pill, as a food/drink so they may still be able to sawm.


Not sure that type 2 is completely reversible (depends on the persons and how long they have been suffering diabete). About type 1, some people needs several injections at different times in the day (they are given timing) and must eat some minutes after. Anyway, doctors know more than us.

If there genuinely is a lifelong condition which makes fasting impossible or risky then there is few ways to look at this verse:

Substitute other days to fast and if there is no day when one is not ill then one does not need to fast and the rest of the verse may not apply (as it only talks of those who are able to do sawm, not those unable). Bear in mind verses [6:165 one can only work with that they have i.e. case-dependent to some degree, 64:16 do what one is able, 48:17 leeway for those ill etc].

Or interestingly, the verse could cover such a scenario as it says "whoever volunteers better" so if one thinks they do not fall into any category or will never be able to substitute days then they can volunteer better than doing nothing if they wish to, each to their own capacity.

As always, this is my take. Each to their own.


This can respond to the questions. Allah knows best.

Wakas

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2020, 02:38:31 PM »

Not sure that type 2 is completely reversible (depends on the persons and how long they have been suffering diabete). About type 1, some people needs several injections at different times in the day (they are given timing) and must eat some minutes after. Anyway, doctors know more than us.

Type2 is completely reversible in most patients. Please see this article.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Fadiva

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2020, 02:55:03 PM »
Type2 is completely reversible in most patients. Please see this article.

I will read it inch Allah.

Wakas

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Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2021, 01:24:17 AM »
peace all,

New article:

Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html

It's that time of the year....... apparently. Bump.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org