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Translating 2:196

Started by Idris, October 24, 2004, 10:07:09 AM

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Mazhar

Quote from: Wakas on July 24, 2018, 05:37:12 PM
peace Mazhar,

Since you seem to fixate on the word "al hajj", you may like to know you are referring to a 2011 post. You can read my 2013 hajj article here, in which I state:

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

Salamun alaika,

Yes, I have thoroughly studied that and will discuss it side by side the analysis.

Quote4 - root: Ha-Jim-Jim. Note the perfect/past tense implies one could have done "HaJJ" but not necessarily encountered "safa" and "marwah" yet, meaning they are not compulsory aspects of "HaJJ" (or "umrah") but are accessible secondary to it. Also if they were an intrinsic part of "al HaJJ" then there would be no need to state "there is no blame on him that he should go about/amongst them". This is further reinforced by the imperfect tense "ttawwaf" which follows. As a side note, some Traditional commentators also mention this point.

This verb حَجَّ in 2:158 is the conditional clause by conditional noun and is in  Jussive state. A conditional clause has apodosis clause beginning with Particle Fa.

فَمَنْ حَجَّ الْبَيْتَ أَوِ اعْتَمَرَ فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِ أَن يَطَّوَّفَ بِهِمَا ۚ وَمَن تَطَوَّعَ خَيْرًا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ شَاكِرٌ عَلِيمٌ

The apodosis clause is a nominal sentence

فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِ أَن يَطَّوَّفَ بِهِمَا

أَن يَطَّوَّفَ is the Predicate of this sentence in which verb in subjunctive mood is interpreted as verbal noun because of أن المصدرية.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Mazhar

QuoteThe root ح ج ج is used 33 times in the Quran, as per Quran Corpus and 20 times it is understood as argument or debate. 12 times it is translated as "pilgramage" and once as "year".
How translators accepted these adopted meanings ignoring the basic root meanings is open for debate.

That corpus (I had, declining offer of charges, voluntarily annotated, and had given him input before finalizing Phd thesis-http://corpus.quran.com/contact.jsp) does not show perception of the Root. Neither shows the additional meanings that get added to the word by its morphology, syntax and collocates.

Semantics of Grand Qur?ān - Dictionary of Roots and Lexicon of Qur?ān

http://haqeeqat.pk/roots/intro.htm
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Novice

Quote from: Mazhar on July 24, 2018, 09:50:52 PM
That corpus (I had, declining offer of charges, voluntarily annotated, and had given him input before finalizing Phd thesis-http://corpus.quran.com/contact.jsp) does not show perception of the Root. Neither shows the additional meanings that get added to the word by its morphology, syntax and collocates.

Semantics of Grand Qur?ān - Dictionary of Roots and Lexicon of Qur?ān

http://haqeeqat.pk/roots/intro.htm

I used corpus to confirm number of occurrences of the root. Never said that corpus gives us meaning of a root. Point was that how the root is used in the Quran and why at some places it is translated as pilgrimage.

Novice

Quote from: Mazhar on July 24, 2018, 09:07:22 PM

Translators can't "adopt" meanings; meanings, semantics of words of one language into another language is done by lexicographers in lexicons where they mention what the natives of the language use that word, meanings, and sense, or metonym.

Quran is the source document for guidance of mankind. It uses a language that is based on roots which in turn have specific meanings. If a lexican gives meaning of a word ignoring its root meaning then i go back to the source document to see how this root is used. Message of Quran has to be easy enough to understand by mankind.



Mazhar

Quote from: Novice on July 25, 2018, 04:30:27 AM
I used corpus to confirm number of occurrences of the root. Never said that corpus gives us meaning of a root. Point was that how the root is used in the Quran and why at some places it is translated as pilgrimage.

Not only it is the perception infolded in the Root but also is confirmed in Qur'aan. Soon it will be discussed.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Mazhar

Contd from Reply 51, 64 and 66

وَأَتِمُّوا الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلَّهِ

Brother Wakas rendition:

Quote2:196 And complete the conference/symposium and the visit for God.

My question was in Post 66:

QuoteCan Perlocution (Hearer's reaction to message) could be "conference/symposium" in the light of famous Lexicons?

My answer is absolutely not. Reason being "conference/symposium" is the translation of object of the verb: الْحَجَّ which is related to:


Beware, the Huj - pilgrimage of the House is an obligation imposed upon such people who have the capacity and wherewithal to travel towards it (the House) for the awe and reverence for  Allah the Exalted.  [Refer 3:97]

Further the word "complete" does not collocate with "conference/symposium". Yet further "conference/symposium" is not an act done by an individual, in individual capacity, but is a collective affair.

The Topic sentence is followed by a subordinate clause which further clarifies the state of affairs obtaining on the ground:



However, if on arrival you were blockaded to perform it, then you are only required to send that which was readily available of garlanded mammals raised for sacrifice.

City and Place of Conference/Symposium is approved and clearance given to participants before they embark journey to arrive there on the settled date. No question of blockade.

It is a subordinate sentence linked to Topic sentence evident by prefixed Conjunction Particle: فَ denoting cause and effect relations between two things, states, events. It comprises of a conditional and apodosis clause.

فَإِنْ أُحْصِرْتُمْ : It is conditional clause comprising of Conditional Particle and verbal sentence: Verb: Perfect, in Jussive state as verb of condition; second person; plural; masculine; Passive; [Form-IV] Attached Ergative/Proxy Subject Pronoun, in nominative state; مصدر-اِحْصَارٌ Verbal Noun; It stems from Root:  ح ص ر. Verb signifies they were restricted, blockaded, not allowed entry to the place - Town where the House is located.
This conjunct conditional clause clarifies that if this was the state of affairs faced by the Pilgrims, the first clause would be impracticable, hence not applicable to such pilgrims to complete all the protocols. It means, "Sequel to you having been blockaded entering the Town", and implicit message is then the aforementioned injunction becomes irrelevant in this situation.

What should they do in such situation before going back/or being deported to their native Towns, cities?

فَمَا ٱسْتَيْسَـرَ مِنَ ٱلْـهَدْىِۖ:  It is Apodosis clause. It is a nominal elliptical sentence with elided predicate.  Relative Pronoun: مَا  is the Subject. Its Linkage clause is the verbal sentence: ٱسْتَيْسَـر Verb: Perfect; third person; singular; masculine; [Form-X]; [هُوَ] Subject pronoun hidden; مصدر-اِسْتِيْسَارٌ Verbal Noun; Root: ى س ر.   The Prepositional Phrase: مِنَ ٱلْـهَدْىِ   relates to the elided circumstantial clause for the subject of verb.  Preposition indicates the relation which subsists between the part and whole, the species and the genus, When it precedes a definite noun, it often indicates an indefinite quantity or number.
The Apodosis clause thus means  "Then you are only required to send that which was readily available of garlanded mammals raised for sacrifice." Thereby, it indicates that offering of sacrificial mammal is the tail activity in the protocols towards concluding the Hajj and Uemraa.


And you people should not remove hair-shave your heads till the reaching of the sacrificial mammal to his destined point.

This subordinate clause is conjunct to preceding clause giveing instruction regards what to do after having sent the Mammal. The verbal sentence: لَا تَحْلِقُوا۟ رُءُوسَكُـمْ   is prohibitory command by Prohibitory Particle followed by second person, plural, masculine verb in Jussive Mood followed by its object:  رُءُوسَكُـم   a Possessive Phrase meaning "your heads".
The verb stems from Root: ح ل ق  which signifies to peel off, to shave off hair. The command means that after having sent the Mammal, "You people should not shave off your heads". It is thus explicit that shaving off the heads is the last act to be done to conclude the Hajj where after the Pilgrims can go back to their respective town and cities dispersing the gathering. What is the waiting period for doing it?
حَـتَّىٰ يَبْلُـغَ ٱلْـهَدْىُ مَحِلَّهُۥۚ : This clause, treated syntactically as prepositional phrase defines the restraint time for shaving the heads. Particle: حَـتَّىٰ    denotes purpose and acts as Preposition, Preositions tell the "position" of things or objects in relation to where other people or objects are located. They can show relationships between objects in space- where one thing is in relation to another, and they can show relationships in time, when an event occurred in relation to another event.
يَبْلُـغَ ٱلْـهَدْىُ : Verbal sentence, grammatically interpreted in the meanings of verbal noun. Verb is in subjunctive mood and its doer  -subject is ٱلْـهَدْىُ: the garlanded mammal for sacrifice. The object of verb signifying reaching/crossing over is: مَحِلَّهُ   a Possessive Phrase with pronoun referent to: ٱلْـهَدْىُ. The object noun definite by construct means the specific place of moving of mammal for slaughter.

It should be noted that only reaching of the mammal to specific place is mentioned, not his actual slaughter. Thereby, it is obvious that they are asked to wait shaving off their head for such estimated time that mammal is taken to appointed slaughter house.

Since commands are to be obeyed by all, a saving clause needs to be there for those who may not be able to abide by it for medical reasons.



However, if someone of you was sick, or with itching-irritation persisting in his head he is faced with, necessitating removal of hair or avoidance of shaving, thereby, an absolver is due upon him of choice; fasting, or to gift something to needy, or doing any good act.

This is dependent clause by prefixed Conjunction Particle: فَ denoting cause and effect relations. He who feels reluctant to carry out the order for reasons mentioned herein is required to do mentioned acts for absolving himself.
In gatherings, the possibility of head lice infestation is common. Head lice feed only on human blood and are only able to survive on human head hair. The best precautionary measure is to shave off the hair. On recruiting soldiers, they are also given a hair cut to avoid the possibility of its spread in the troops.

[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Wakas

The article has been updated with some extra information:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html

This verse still poses significant problems for various understandings.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

amin

Wakas,

it looks simple, yes made complicated in some of translations.


///
Quran 2/196,
And complete the Hajj and do ʿumrah for Allāh if you are prevented/cannot reach at Hajj time,

with What can be obtained with ease of the sacrificial things, [both hajj and umrah can be done with easy among the hadya]

And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial  has reached its place of destination(do not do it initially itself)
And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head a ransom of fasting or charity or sacrifice.
 
And when you are secure [after the difficulty in travel to Hajj] , then whoever performs ʿumrah [after the Hajj is over],
with what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals.

And whoever cannot [do Umrah also and totally prevented] - then a fast of three days during ḥajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days].


This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Ḥarām. And fear Allāh and know that Allāh is severe in penalty.

///

Wakas

peace amin,

Your translation didn't address some of the questions raised in the article.

As I said this verses seems to pose significant problems for various understandings, including yours.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

amin

can you address the problems with my translation?

I am seeing three different scenarios,

First is participating in Hajj without any delay, and shaving the heads only after the sacrifice reaches its destination, if cannot do the head shaving, then fasting or extra offering in ransom.

Second is prevented in traveling to Hajj and arriving after the Hajj, and thats Umrah as they had put extra effort.

Third is returning back without participating or unable reach the masjid al haram, which can be satisfied with fasting.