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Contradiction in the Quran

Started by Shaykh Saihili, August 06, 2004, 06:43:48 AM

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YankeeDoodle

Tay,

Since this tribesman is lacking in his knowledge of Arabic or for that matter oblivious to modern civilisation all I can say is he may fall into one of these categories in here.The only difference would be his recompense which most likely be basic but I am not certain of.Now for the rest of us well informed and well educated people we would be graded in a manner that we now cannot ignore the fact  we need to know the Arabic laws and the language so as not to be fooled,misled or herded into gehenna.Ignorance now should not be our excuse to claim heaven.

Quote"Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish,
the Christians the  converts; anyone who
(1) believes in God and
(2) believes in the Hereafter, and
(3) leads a righteous life,
will receive their recompense from their Lord;
they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve
."
[Quran 5:69, 2:62]

As I understand it your hypothetical example would be a man that exihibits good and righteous core values.

Cheers.

Idris

peace, Sara

I found this on submission.org, believe it or not they do have stuff there other the the 19 code :lol: infact not even a large part of it is about the 19 code, http://www.submission.org/christians/friends.html tell me if you like it



Many people who are not familiar with the Quran or  did not make a good effort to study it  are confused about the issue of befriending people from other religions. Many of them  make grave judgment on this matter.

Quran is a complete book that occasionally presents a law or commandment over several chapters or several verses in the same chapter and the practical part of this commandment can be achieved by understanding the whole issue as presented over all the verses and chapters and not by upholding only part of the Quran. God specifically warn us against doing just that, upholding part of the Quran while disregarding the rest.

[2:85] ?. Do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? What should be the retribution for those among you who do this?..

To understand the issue of befriending the Jews and Christians , we have to study all the concerned verses together in light of the whole Quran.

I heard many people mention 5:51 with no referral to the rest of the verses that discuss this important issue.

[5:51] O you who believe, do not take [certain] Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.

 Now, let's look at some other verses about befriending the Jews and the   Christians, or anyone not Muslim  (Submitter) for that matter. These two verses are regulating relations with any people, regardless of faith;

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Thus, we learn that we are only enjoined from befriending those who fight us because of religion. Let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it now sheds some more light on the issue.

[5:52] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.

Thus, it is clear that this is a situation when there is a division and an overhanging conflict between the believers and the others. Otherwise, what would be the logic behind the statement. "We fear lest we may be defeated."

In these situations those with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.

5:57 makes it clear again, who are not to be taken as friends;

[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.


God teaches us throughout the Quran that there are righteous Jews and Christians. So, if we think we are righteous, and they are righteous, what could possibly be the problem between us, or obstacle for us to be friends?

[7:159] Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's   revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

[2:62 & 5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[3:113-114]. They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.

They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous.

[3:199] Surely, some followers of the previous scriptures do believe in GOD, and in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed to them. They reverence GOD, and they never trade away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. These will receive their recompense from their Lord. GOD is the most efficient in reckoning.


We learn, however, from the Quran that the Christians are closer to the believers (submitters-Muslims) than the Jews.  This is just a statement of fact by God almighty, that we can still witness during our time. God is the best knower of  the emotional structure of His creations and therefore was this statement of fact in 5:82. We can witness from the conflict in the Middle East for example , how very emotional the Jews get and how they react to conflicts with their friends, their enemies or even among themselves inside Israel.

[5:82] You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.

This verse should not be used by any mean to negate the fact that among the Jews  (and Christians) will be righteous people who can be good friends as explained in the above verses,  they do not fight us in our religion or our homes. They can be our neighbors, colleagues, friends, co-workers...etc  We will be good to them as they are good to us. We, all the righteous people of all religions ,can make the difference and make this world better by respecting each other,  respecting the freedom of choice of each other, and remember that we all have the One and the same God.

May God bless you
Workers and their families may starve to death in the New World Order of economic rationality, but diamond necklaces are cheaper in elegant New York shops, thanks to the miracle of the market.
-Noam Chomsky

YankeeDoodle

Hi,
Idris your argument this time is totally off course and it is unacceptable.?Let us look at this verse below

QuoteYankee quoted:005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
KHALIFA: O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide transgressors.
QuoteIdris wrote:
Many people who are not familiar with the Quran or did not make a good effort to study it are confused about the issue of befriending people from other religions. Many of them make grave judgment on this matter.
Now, let's look at some other verses about befriending the Jews and the Christians, or anyone not Muslim (Submitter) for that matter. These two verses are regulating relations with any people, regardless of faith
;
Then you quoted:
Quote
[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Thus, we learn that we are only enjoined from befriending those who fight us because of religion. Let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it now sheds some more light on the issue.

[5:52] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.

Please READ the context of chapter 60. It refers to dislbelievers and has nothing to do with people of the scripture,(Jews and Christians) that you quoted.It was all about the various Feuding Tribes of the Arabs.By making that statement in Red you should consider this verses below.

002.009
YUSUFALI: Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
PICKTHAL: They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
SHAKIR: They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
KHALIFA: In trying to deceive GOD and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.

002.010
YUSUFALI: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
PICKTHAL: In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
SHAKIR: There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they
KHALIFA: In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.


cheers.

Idris

peace,

Quote from: "YankeeDoodle"Hi,
Idris your argument this time is totally off course and it is unacceptable.?Let us look at this verse below

QuoteYankee quoted:005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
KHALIFA: O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide transgressors.
QuoteIdris wrote:
Many people who are not familiar with the Quran or did not make a good effort to study it are confused about the issue of befriending people from other religions. Many of them make grave judgment on this matter.
Now, let's look at some other verses about befriending the Jews and the Christians, or anyone not Muslim (Submitter) for that matter. These two verses are regulating relations with any people, regardless of faith
;
Then you quoted:
Quote
[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Thus, we learn that we are only enjoined from befriending those who fight us because of religion. Let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it now sheds some more light on the issue.

[5:52] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.

Please READ the context of chapter 60. It refers to dislbelievers and has nothing to do with people of the scripture,(Jews and Christians) that you quoted.It was all about the various Feuding Tribes of the Arabs.By making that statement in Red you should consider this verses below.

002.009
YUSUFALI: Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
PICKTHAL: They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
SHAKIR: They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
KHALIFA: In trying to deceive GOD and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.

002.010
YUSUFALI: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
PICKTHAL: In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
SHAKIR: There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they
KHALIFA: In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.


cheers.

it wasn't my argument

QuoteI found this on submission.org, believe it or not they do have stuff there other the the 19 code  infact not even a large part of it is about the 19 code, http://www.submission.org/christians/friends.html tell me if you like it

anyways why should I (or the person who wrote the article) consider those verses, are you saying he/she is a liar and a disbeliever just for having an unintentional flaw in a argument (if it is a flaw at all)?
Workers and their families may starve to death in the New World Order of economic rationality, but diamond necklaces are cheaper in elegant New York shops, thanks to the miracle of the market.
-Noam Chomsky

BornFree

SLM,

Half truths should not get its way into this Forum lest innocent readers be affected.If you have nothing better to say then I suggest you look for another thread to release some pent-up frustration.

So far I still feel SSaihili,Yankeedoodle is right about the need to understand Arabic otherwise there would be a contradiction in the Quran.From the Quranic verses produced here,Al-Quran has been consistent about the nature of Jews and Christians in relations to believers.The essence of the message is directing the believers towards safety(heaven) of the hereafter and not as many of you interpreted i.e. hatred and animosity towards those communities(Jews and Christians) in this modern civilised society.

Quran must be taken as it is ,even when the overtones of the message are aggresive.It has a purpose that many of us could only conjecture most of the time.It is not favourable to tenderise or compromise its intentions just to suit the curious readers but it must be argued as honestly as it should be.One very raw example regarding lack of diplomacy and etiquette would be as someone presented this before;the incident with Abu Lhab.

Last but not least I still find two distinct groups in this Forum: the Free-Minds VS the Aliens.

Peace :idea:
Born Free as free as the wind blows,as free as the grass grow born free to follow your heart.