WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

[PRIEST_BOKMEI]

PEACE DANISH

After giving much thought on believing in GOD (THE UNSEEN CREATOR OF CREATIONS), HIS Angels, HIS Scriptures, HIS Messengers and the Heavens and the Earth, I wonder who and what these "angels" are, when we have never seen, heard nor known anything about them?

Do you have any ideas?  It's been said that they are the forces seen and unseen inherent in the creation.  Make any sense to you?

[Danish]

Peace Priest_Bokmei,

Do you have any ideas?

Controlled (angelic/adamic) and uncontrolled (jinnic/satanic) thoughts as per Kyle.

It's been said that they are the forces seen and unseen inherent in the creation.

1. Humans (seen); Thoughts (unseen).
2. Wind (?seen?); its power and destructive nature as to what it can do or not do (unseen).
3. A bee (seen); its force, strength and intend to sting (unseen).
4. Clouds/rain (seen); its intent to destruct or bloom (unseen).
5. Old age (seen); its intent to die (unseen).
6. Scripture ? guidance (seen); what it can bring or do, as a ?force? (unseen).
7. Messenger/message (?seen?); its intent (unseen).

We know that humans are of only two kinds; males and females (seen), both of which possess controlled (angelic/adamic/humble/calm) and uncontrolled (jinnic/satanic/evil/fiery) thoughts (unseen).

With no offence, I believe Kyle has a valid point as to the angels being controlled thoughts and jinns being uncontrolled thoughts, which I am still grasping. Besides, I have yet to witness or even hear about winged angels flying around, just like most think that jinns (some creatures) are made up of fire, yet to be seen or heard of.

Most of the time, when I am all by myself more so, sitting or lying down alone, several thoughts/forces, both good (controlled/humble) and bad (uncontrolled/evil), simply swoosh through my mind. With such thoughts and being all alone, I believe I am not in a company of "jinn and angel creatures".

Make any sense to you?

Keep it going friend, there?s a lot to comprehend.

GOD Bless.

[Tay]

Excellent post Danish!

Here's an ayah to ponder:

41:30 Those who say: Our Lord is Allah, then continue in the right way, the angels descend upon them, saying: Fear not, nor be grieved, and receive good news of the garden which you were promised.

Now I wonder how many people who believe in Allah and live righteously have seen or heard these angels, or is it that these angels are the "feelings" of harmony, peace, connectedness, and bliss, feelings that await the righteous in the Hereafter.

Peace,
Tay

[PRIEST_BOKMEI]

PEACE DANISH

We know that humans are of only two kinds; males and females (seen), both of which possess controlled (angelic/adamic/humble/calm) and uncontrolled (jinnic/satanic/evil/fiery) thoughts (unseen).

Hmmm...perhaps, but I see only one kind of human--homo sapien sapiens which is comprised of males and females and jinn and men.

With no offence, I believe Kyle has a valid point as to the angels being controlled thoughts and jinns being uncontrolled thoughts, which I am still grasping. Besides, I have yet to witness or even hear about winged angels flying around, just like most think that jinns (some creatures) are made up of fire, yet to be seen or heard of.

No offense taken, Danish, we are here to find the truth.  If you can elucidate on Idol's theory and make it clearer for me all the better.  The controlled versus uncontrolled thought position is difficult for me to wrap my mind around.  Although I absolutely reject the notion of winged beings with white robes, halos and harps, I am inclined to believe the angels are the forces of this creation i.e. x-rays, sound waves, electricity, hurricanes [seen] as well as the forces/angels which bring them into existence [unseen].  I cannot, yet anyway, concretely categorize "thought" as angels, however, I cann see thoughts allegorically as "angelic thinking/behavior".

Most of the time, when I am all by myself more so, sitting or lying down alone, several thoughts/forces, both good (controlled/humble) and bad (uncontrolled/evil), simply swoosh through my mind. With such thoughts and being all alone, I believe I am not in a company of "jinn and angel creatures".

Your example reminds me of the old cartoon with a person who has to make a moral decision and has an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other each trying to influence him   .  What makes me reluctant to view the angels as thoughts are ayats 4:136 and 16:49-50 which suggest that the angels are a category of creation just as humans and the animals are categories of creation.

I think the root word M-L-K needs to be re-examined.  I think that maliaka and malik, are different terms although they share the same root, if in fact that is the case.

Looking forward to your reply and analysis.

[mz357]

Salaams ,
               may be someone has gone over this , if so please explain.

6:130. "O you tribes of Jinn and humans, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day?? They said: ?Yes, we bear witness upon ourselves;? and the worldly life deceived them, and they bore witness on themselves that they were rejecters.

Allah chooses Message-bearers from among the angels as well as from among mankind. (22:75)

According to these two ayah?s ?The Jinn are Angels? or some Jinn are and vice versa.


Jinn and humans ------ messengers come to you from amongst you  !


Allah chooses Message-bearers from among the angels as well as mankind !

Or isn?t the logic there ?





Gods Blessings.

[PRIEST_BOKMEI]

PEACE MZ 357

I used this same ayat in my analysis of the Jinn.  See the thre last few post on the thread...WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN

[Wakas]

From PRL:

Quote:
= Jiim-Nun-Nun (root of jinn) = veiled/concealed/covered/hid/protected (e.g. cloth, armour, grave, shield), invisible, become dark/posessed, darkness of night, bereft of reason, mad/insane/unsound in mind/intellect, confusedness.
Become thick/full-grown/blossom, herbage, garden.
Spiritual beings that conceal themselves from the senses (including angels), become weak and abject, greater part of mankind, devil/demon, people who are peerless having no match or equal, a being who is highly potent, sometimes refers to Kings because they are concealed from the common folk
[53:32]


I remember writing this root and I have a copy of Lanes. It does not mention 'locusts' in the root. I checked it again.

As a side note:
I noted something interesting, when it says iblis became of the JNN [18:50], it says this means he adopted the disposition of the JNN. Similar to us humans when people compare us to animals "strong as a Lion" "he's like a fox" "they are sheep" etc. it doesn't mean we are or become the animal, we take on its characteristics. Just like iBLiS took on the characteristics of the JNN, i.e. unsound etc. (roots can be checked in PRL).

[aladdin]

Hum 

[savage_carrot]

I have also noticed some bumped posts in the christianity section. Normally, someone would like to post their thoughts on old threads and then they get bumped up or they just read them 

[aladdin]

Salaam All,

The post dated September 24, 2006 by Latifah has information on the same subject:

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4986&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

Mohamed