Author Topic: Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari  (Read 18305 times)

zenje

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2004, 09:29:35 PM »
Quote from: "PrinceZ?D"
If Allah (swt) HIMSELF loves the Holy Prophet (pbuh) so much as He shows throught the Holy Qur'an, then why can't we "follow" Allah (swt) in loving the Holy Prophet (pbuh) more than anything else, for Allah's sake????

"Say (O Muhammad) : If you (men) really do love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [Holy Qur'an AaliImraan (3):31]
:?
If they turn away, then Say: "God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne." [9:129]

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2004, 09:48:06 PM »
Quote from: "Idris"
Just because when someone does not call Muhammad a god or a son of God does not mean that person does not commit idolatry,



LOL!!! :lol: Do you even KNOW what idolatry is??? :lol:


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someone sets up partners with God when that person devotes more or as much time, energy, love, etc. to something other then God,



LOL!!! :lol:

Again, do you even know what you are talking about??? :lol:


When did I ever take time out to WORSHIP Muhammad (pbuh)??? I am talking about LOVE and following him the way Allah (swt) has commanded us.


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God tests our claims of believing that He is God alone by our actions, so when someone mentions Muhammad's name in prayers and loves him more then he/she does God it is a form of idol worship



And which verse or Hadith of the prophet are you using to make such judgment???  :roll:  :roll:

Don't make up stories and assumptions and beliefs from your own desire instead of the Holy Qur'an mate.  :roll:

First of all, get one thing straight, idolatry is the worship of idols, which idol do I worship???  :roll:

Secondly, I am saying for the thousands time, I DO NOT WORSHIP Muhammad (pbuh). So isn't that enough for you to back off??? If you are trying to make me force to admit that I worship Muhammad (pbuh), it's not going to happen mate, so back off.


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2.165: And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to God, and that God is severe in retribution.

plus where does it say "other gods"? it just says "other", it could mean anything (their cash, children, cars, houses, etc.) regardless of whether you call something a god or not if someone puts more or as much time and devotion into it then he/she does God then he/she is setting it up as a partner besides god


LOL!!! :lol:

I can't believe how simple your minds operate and you see everything the way you want to see it from your own perceived beliefs. You like taking words out of context don't you. Read the whole phrase, and then read the whole verse:

It says "take other than God as equals to Him". It means that people take OTHERS besides Allah (swt) AS EQUAL TO HIM.

And for the one thousand-and-oneth time, I do not worship Muhammad (pbuh) or make him equal to God.

Why can't I love him for what he is???? Why can't I love him and follow him the way Allah (swt) has commanded us. Why do you people have to show so much hate in your words for the Holy Prophet (pbuh)???  :(


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Who Is Your God?


Allah (swt)

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Most people are outraged upon hearing this question. "What do you mean, `Who is your god?' they ask, `My god is the Creator of the heavens and the earth.' " And most of these people will be shocked to find out that their proclamation that their god is the Creator of the heavens and the earth is no more than lip service, and that they are in fact destined for Hell (12:106).



You make me laugh with your bent interpretations: :lol:

Verse 12:106:

And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him! [Holy Qur'an 12:106]

How did you make all that interpretation from this verse???  :roll:
The verse is regarding those Polythiests who believe in ONE GOD, yet at the same time they ASSOCIATE PARTNERS WITH HIM. The example is what the Christians did with Jesus, they believe in One God (the Father) yet they also associate partners with God by believing that Jesus (pbuh) is also a god. This is the meaning of the verse. "Most of them" - is Christianity supposedly not the largest religion in the world??


Besdies, for the one-thousand-and-second time, I DO NOT ASSOCIATE PARTNERS with Allah (swt). Muhammad (pbuh) is the Creation of Allah (swt), the best and the first of Creations (see other thread for this discussion and proof). :)


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Your god is whoever or whatever occupies your mind most of the time.


Bullshit!!!!

I can't believe that this is your concept of God!!! :lol:
That a persoon's God is that which is occupied in his mind most of the time!! :lol: :lol:

(Although I agree, that we SHOULD think about God all the time, howeverm the reverse is not true, thinking about something all the time does not make that thing a god to you automatically :lol:)



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Your god can be your children (7:190), your spouse (9:24), your business (18:35), or your ego (25:43).



LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I can't believe that you believe think like this !!! :lol:

Mannnn.. I really feel sorry for you for the low level of knowledge and intellect you have :lol:


Verse 7:190 in context:

It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful." But when He giveth them a goodly child, they ascribe to others a share in the gift they have received: but Allah is exalted high above the partners they ascribe to Him. [Holy Qur'an 7:189-190]


So notice story.. A man and woman get married.. they pray to God alone to give them a good child, but when they are blessed with a good child, they begin to set up other gods besides Allah (swt). Allah (swt) is showing us that when we are in need of help, we worship Him, but when He gives us what we ask for, then we forget his favour and we begin to associate partners with him. Maybe this verse is again applying to the Christians.. certainly not the Muslims though since we worship one and only God, Allah (swt) and do not ascribe partners to Him.

No where is the verse referring to the child being set up as god!!! :lol:


Verse 9:24:

Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious. [Holy Qur'an 9:24]

Again, where doesit say that your "spouse can be god"??? The verse is giving us a clear picture that we should have love for Allah (swt), the Prophet (pbuh) and striving in His cause more than anything in life. Sorry dude! I failed to see the "your spouse can be god" bit!!!! :lol:

I have used this verse again and again to show you the importance of love for the Holy Prophet (pbuh) which you peole seem to have trouble with!!!!


Verse 18:35 in context:

Each of those gardens brought forth its produce, and failed not in the least therein: in the midst of them We caused a river to flow. (Abundant) was the produce this man had : he said to his companion, in the course of a mutual argument: "more wealth have I than you, and more honour and power in (my following of) men." He went into his garden in a state (of mind) unjust to his soul: He said, "I deem not that this will ever perish, "Nor do I deem that the Hour (of Judgment) will (ever) come: Even if I am brought back to my Lord, I shall surely find (there) something better in exchange." [Holy Qur'an 18:33-36]


Where does it say that people set up their "business as god"??? :lol: The message of the verses is that you cannot take this life for granted. This life is only temporary, we have to believe in the Day of Judgment. And this life will surely come to an end very soon.


Verse 25:43 in context:

When they see thee, they treat thee no otherwise than in mockery: "Is this the one whom Allah has sent as a messenger?" "He indeed would well-nigh have misled us from our gods, had it not been that we were constant to them!" - Soon will they know, when they see the Penalty, who it is that is most misled in Path! Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him? Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path. [Holy Qur'an 25:41-44]


The meaning of the verse is that people follow their own desire and believe in false gods according to their lower desires. It is not saying that the lower desires are in fact gods to them. Don't be silly.. why would Allah 9swt) say such a thing when no one takes their "lower desires" as gods??  :roll:  However, it is true that out of desire, "lust" or impulse people are worshipping idols, Jesus, Rama, Krishna etc. This is the meaning of the verse. That the people are following their desires instead of using their logic and mind and reasoning into deciding what true God is.


So, in all the examples, you have been misinformed mate. Hope you have learnt something. ;)

Insha'Allah!



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This is why we note that one of the most important and most repeated commandments in the Quran is:

"O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently; glorify Him day and night. " [33:41]

To put this commandment into practice, we must establish certain habits whereby we guarantee that God occupies our minds more than anything else. The Quran helps us establish such soul saving habits:

1. Commemorate God before eating: Verse 6:121 enjoins us to mention God's name before we eat: "You shall not eat from that upon which God's name has not been mentioned."

2. God Willing (IN SHAA ALLAH): "You shall not say, `I will do this or that tomorrow,' without saying, `God willing' (IN SHAA ALLAH). If you forget to do this, then apologize and say, `May my Lord guide me to do better next time.'" [18:24]. This is a direct commandment that we must carry out, no matter who we are talking with.

3. God's Gift (MAA SHAA ALLAH): To invoke God's protection for our beloved objects - our children, our cars, our homes, etc. - we are enjoined in 18:39 to say "MAA SHAA ALLAH" (This is God's gift).

4. Glorify God day and night: When we eat anything, we shouldn't be like animals; we must reflect on God's creation of the food we are eating - the flavor, our enjoyment due to the senses God has given us, the perfect packaging of the banana or the orange, the varieties of sea foods created by God, etc. - and glorify Him as we enjoy His provisions. When we see a beautiful flower, or animal, or sunsets, we must glorify God.
We must seize every possible opportunity to remember and glorify God, so that God may be our God.

5. First Utterance: Make it a habit to say: "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. There is no other god besides God," the moment you wake up every morning. If you establish this good habit,
this is what you will utter when you are resurrected.


Agreed.

hafeez kazi

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2004, 11:39:37 AM »
Bukhari: 3:13 Jabir Bin Abdullah 3:683 ibn Abbas
The Prophet (along with his companions) reached Mecca in the morning of the fourth of Dhul-Hijja assuming Ihram for Hajj only. So when we arrived at Mecca, the Prophet ordered us to change our intentions of the Ihram for 'Umra and that we could finish our Ihram after performing the 'Umra and could go to our wives (for sexual intercourse). The people began talking about that. Jabir said surprisingly, "Shall we go to Mina while semen is dribbling from our male organs?" Jabir moved his hand while saying so. When this news reached the Prophet he delivered a sermon and said, "I have been informed that some peoples were saying so and so; By Allah I fear Allah more than you do, and am more obedient to Him than you. If I had known what I know now, I would not have brought the Hadi (sacrifice) with me and had the Hadi not been with me, I would have finished the Ihram." At that Suraqa bin Malik stood up and asked "O Allah's Apostle! Is this permission for us only or is it forever?" The Prophet replied, "It is forever." In the meantime 'Ali bin Abu Talib came from Yemen and was saying Labbaik for what the Prophet has intended. (According to another man, 'Ali was saying Labbaik for Hajj similar to Allah's Apostle's). The Prophet told him to keep on the Ihram and let him share the Hadi with him.

hafeez kazi

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2004, 11:43:22 AM »
Bukhari: 3:13 Jabir Bin Abdullah 3:683 ibn Abbas
The Prophet (along with his companions) reached Mecca in the morning of the fourth of Dhul-Hijja assuming Ihram for Hajj only. So when we arrived at Mecca, the Prophet ordered us to change our intentions of the Ihram for 'Umra and that we could finish our Ihram after performing the 'Umra and could go to our wives (for sexual intercourse). The people began talking about that. Jabir said surprisingly, "Shall we go to Mina while semen is dribbling from our male organs?" Jabir moved his hand while saying so. When this news reached the Prophet he delivered a sermon and said, "I have been informed that some peoples were saying so and so; By Allah I fear Allah more than you do, and am more obedient to Him than you. If I had known what I know now, I would not have brought the Hadi (sacrifice) with me and had the Hadi not been with me, I would have finished the Ihram." At that Suraqa bin Malik stood up and asked "O Allah's Apostle! Is this permission for us only or is it forever?" The Prophet replied, "It is forever." In the meantime 'Ali bin Abu Talib came from Yemen and was saying Labbaik for what the Prophet has intended. (According to another man, 'Ali was saying Labbaik for Hajj similar to Allah's Apostle's). The Prophet told him to keep on the Ihram and let him share the Hadi with him.

Idris

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2004, 02:26:18 PM »
peace,

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I can't believe how simple your minds operate and you see everything the way you want to see it from your own perceived beliefs. You like taking words out of context don't you.


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LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      

I can't believe that you believe think like this !!!  

Mannnn.. I really feel sorry for you for the low level of knowledge and intellect you have  


do I really need to quote Qu'ranic verses showing the errors in your ettiquite? if I'm wrong I'm wrong, if I have a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of something then that's ok, I'll humbly admit if I'm wrong and just pray that God gives me better understanding next time

plus

noun form

Main Entry: 1wor?ship
Pronunciation: 'w&r-sh&p
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

verb form

Main Entry: 2worship
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -shiped or -shipped; -ship?ing or -ship?ping
transitive senses
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
intransitive senses : to perform or take part in worship or an act of worship

Idol worship of something is not just calling it a god, giving prayers to it, making statues of it, etc. it can also mean giving equal or greater devotion to, respect to, or honor to something other then God

I'm not insisting that you worship Muhammad either :wink:  

peace
Workers and their families may starve to death in the New World Order of economic rationality, but diamond necklaces are cheaper in elegant New York shops, thanks to the miracle of the market.
-Noam Chomsky

Jaxal

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2004, 03:22:53 PM »
SaLaM Idris...

Bro... havent u figured it out yet? PrincessZed is just a typical sunni.. he cant face the facts that what he is following is wrong... u see.. he dont answer all post.. becoz he knows that he cant answer them.. his hadeeths run away from those posts.. LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL... so bro.. his example is of that person on whome God has set his seal, blinded him, and take away his hearing... The most beautiful God talks about ppl like him.. and that makes me so happy in my heart  :D
She Made Me See The World In A Grain Of Sand.
When The Only Choice You Have Left Is The Wrong One, It'S Not A Choice Anymore... It's Fate.