Author Topic: Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari  (Read 18304 times)

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2004, 02:24:54 AM »
Dear Frank,


I am not looking forward to any scientific explanation how antidote can be extracted from certain flies; I am just interested to know about the practice according to the literal meaning of that hadith.

Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?


Peace

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2004, 02:43:15 AM »
Quote from: "PrinceZ?D"


You don't understand that at the time of the Holy Prophet, where the people used to live in middle of deserts and therefore, water (and food)was of shortage, people cannot just throw away their food or drink because it got contaminated with something.

Therefore, in those times.. even if a fly did land in your cup you had to drink it otherwise you wouldn't be getting anymore and will be  left thirsty or hungary. In those times, as the Hadith suggests, if a fly did land in your cup, dip it totally and throw the fly away.... since.. as the Holy Prophet (pbuh) states: one wing of fly contains certain bioligical particles that would result in giving disease to the person, while the other wing provides the cure. You have not sientifically proven this to be false, so don't be so arrogant and that too for something you have no knowledge of and ALSO going against the words of God, since you are rejecting the words of the prophet (pbuh).. which too you have not PROVEN to be false.

You people are standing on dangerous grounds.  :shock:


Is this your assumption..? Is the source of above explanation from another hadith relating to the fly..?


Quote
To be honest, if a fly DID fall in my cup, I WOULD FOLLOW THIS HADITH, just for the sake of following the prophet (pbuh), and hence for the sake of following Allah (swt), since obeying the prophet (pbuh) = obeying Allah (swt).


So I think, from above statement of yours it is clear that you gonna follow this hadith because of your emotional blind love for prophet and not logic or scientific proof.

And I would assume that, you have chosen to depend on your blind faith to believe on the above hadith because scientifically and also according to health issues Its a bad practice to literally follow that hadith as its a great threat towards our health.

Peace

FRANK

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2004, 06:11:05 AM »
it was asked:"
Quote
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?

If a fly falls into my Glass of tea,I dont think there is any need to dip a fly in my cup , for I could  simply return to the refrigerator and pour another glass,or walk into the store and get another drink :wink:..
Check it out!- Hizb-ut-tahrir--->http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/

morningdew

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2004, 07:53:54 AM »
Peace,

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/flies.html

Here is another site about this hadith.

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2004, 09:57:14 AM »
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?




You questions are same as one another, but worded differently. The answer to both of them is:

If I fly did fall in my cup (first of all, understand that this is a very rare event ;)), I would follow the Hadith, and then I would throw the drink away! :) :)


I have already stated again and again, the hadith that this hadith was practical in thse times when there was much poverty and lack of water. So it was very "expensive" to throw away a drink.

In cases where you can't throw away the drink, and you just had to drink the water, but a fly fell it, it would be wise to follow the Hadith and not just throw the fly out and drinkt he water, in which case, you will have a chance of being infected with some disease.

The real wisdom of the Hadith is that it taught us a scientific fact that flies have those characteristics as described by the Prophet (pbuh). These facts were need in those times more than they are needed now, where eveyrything is so "cheap". Also, obviously, there were no scientific means to find these facts out, and on top of that, in places of hot and humid enviroments, the population of flies is of large. Therefore, this Hadith provided the answer to those people regarding flies falling into their drinks.



Thanks Frank for the scientific info on this. :)


Quote
So I think, from above statement of yours it is clear that you gonna follow this hadith because of your emotional blind love for prophet and not logic or scientific proof.



It is not "blind".. I have love for the prophet using my own senses, mind, and awareness.



I have already stated in another post that a man named Uwais Qarni once heard that the prophet (pbuh)'s tooth was matyred in a battle. In sorrow of this, he broke one of his tooth, then he thought maybe it was a different tooth of the prophet that broke, and so he broke all his own teeth in this way. This is the kind of love that true followers and "lovers" of the prophet (pbuh) had. What are we compared to that? Nothing! :(

Why do you make statement for which you have no knowledge of??? How are you so sure that I am wrong??? Have you received some direct revelation from God??? What if it turned out that you were wrong on the Day of Judgment, what will you have in response?


"Say: 'If your fathers or your sons or your brothers or your wives or your tribe, or any wealth you have acquired, or any business you fear may slump, or any dwelling-places which please you, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and fighting hard in jihad in His Way, then wait until Allah brings about His command.'" (9:25)


Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "None of you will believe until I am more beloved to him than his children, his father and all people." (al-Bukhari, Muslim & an-Nasa'i)



Quote
And I would assume that, you have chosen to depend on your blind faith to believe on the above hadith because scientifically and also according to health issues Its a bad practice to literally follow that hadith as its a great threat towards our health.


And give me one reason why it is a bad practice.  :roll:
Can you prove it scientifically??? I am not talking about specualtions.. I am talking about actual tests where flies have fell in and people drank the drink and they were infected with diseases. Have you got some tests you have carried out? I would like to see the results.  :P

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2004, 02:38:26 PM »
Quote from: "PrinceZ?D"
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?




You questions are same as one another, but worded differently. The answer to both of them is:

If I fly did fall in my cup (first of all, understand that this is a very rare event ;)), I would follow the Hadith, and then I would throw the drink away! :) :)


The question was reffered to bro Frank...anyway thanks for your answer....I think you stand is quite clear by the below statement...

Quote
To be honest, if a fly DID fall in my cup, I WOULD FOLLOW THIS HADITH, just for the sake of following the prophet (pbuh), and hence for the sake of following Allah (swt), since obeying the prophet (pbuh) = obeying Allah (swt).


Quote
I have already stated again and again, the hadith that this hadith was practical in thse times when there was much poverty and lack of water. So it was very "expensive" to throw away a drink.

In cases where you can't throw away the drink, and you just had to drink the water, but a fly fell it, it would be wise to follow the Hadith and not just throw the fly out and drinkt he water, in which case, you will have a chance of being infected with some disease.


This is your own assumption...because the hadith is not pointing towards any situation such as less water or drink but its trying to make a statement on curing disease.

If such dipping the fly could have been a cure at that time than it can cure in this time also. But obviously such practice is a threat towards our health.


Quote
The real wisdom of the Hadith is that it taught us a scientific fact that flies have those characteristics as described by the Prophet (pbuh). These facts were need in those times more than they are needed now, where eveyrything is so "cheap". Also, obviously, there were no scientific means to find these facts out, and on top of that, in places of hot and humid enviroments, the population of flies is of large. Therefore, this Hadith provided the answer to those people regarding flies falling into their drinks.


Now you are trying to mishmash with your speculations to pull out some sort of wisdom from that hadith.!! aren?t you distorting the actual practice which you believe to be taught by prophet..!!!?? In no way the hadith is allegorical, its straight forward pin-pointing towards a practice which will actually cure disease....

It is a proven fact that fly spread diseases and thats why thousands of people die all around the world, mostly in the village area. Thats why there are so any programs in the TV and campaigns to make ppl aware about this situation and how we should try to prevent fly from infecting our health.

So bro Zed, if you really want to follow such practice for the sake of blind love towards Bukhary's book than it?s totally your choice. But as health cautious ppl we feel the need to make ppl aware of such health threatening practice.

Peace

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2004, 02:41:13 PM »
Quote from: "FRANK"
it was asked:"
Quote
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?

If a fly falls into my Glass of tea,I dont think there is any need to dip a fly in my cup , for I could  simply return to the refrigerator and pour another glass,or walk into the store and get another drink :wink:..



Thanks for your sincere answer.......

peace

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2004, 06:05:32 PM »
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Quote from: "FRANK"
it was asked:"
Quote
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?

If a fly falls into my Glass of tea,I dont think there is any need to dip a fly in my cup , for I could  simply return to the refrigerator and pour another glass,or walk into the store and get another drink :wink:..



Thanks for your sincere answer.......

peace





So a sincere answer based on person feelings is respected, and anything that shows love for the prophet in following him, and therefore in following Gods words (obey the prophet) is disrespected by the Quranists. I can see the biased and closed mindedness you people have. Keep it up. :)


LOL!!! Funny, how no one has ever heard of a death caused by a "fly" falling in the person's cup!!! LOL!!! :lol: Nice scientific proof. :lol:

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2004, 08:15:01 PM »
Quote from: "PrinceZ?D"
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Quote from: "FRANK"
it was asked:"
Quote
Simple Question

1) Do you practically follow the hadith as it is described..?

2) What should muslims do according to that hadith..?

If a fly falls into my Glass of tea,I dont think there is any need to dip a fly in my cup , for I could  simply return to the refrigerator and pour another glass,or walk into the store and get another drink :wink:..



Thanks for your sincere answer.......

peace





So a sincere answer based on person feelings is respected, and anything that shows love for the prophet in following him, and therefore in following Gods words (obey the prophet) is disrespected by the Quranists. I can see the biased and closed mindedness you people have. Keep it up. :)


LOL!!! Funny, how no one has ever heard of a death caused by a "fly" falling in the person's cup!!! LOL!!! :lol: Nice scientific proof. :lol:


you see, according to your view anyone can chop off another persons head and say that he/she has done it for the love of prophet and I hope your type of thinking will find it totally ok.

Loving with sincerity and becoming obsessed with blind love  is totally different. there are people who are obsessively in love with their ego, money, children, popularity, leaders or even themselves. this type of love are blind and makes one person incapable of thinking properly. These type of people becomes problematic in the society.

anyway, your sincere answer was also the same as Frank..but than suddenly you reverted to your blind love of prophet and religiously(psychologically) became forced to accept that hadith.

Well bro, its very hard to breakdown the retarded ideals which we are fed from childhood. Its hard to accept the truth as we are bombarded with falsehood from childhood. May be that?s why there is a reward for good deeds.

peace

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2004, 08:26:39 PM »
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
you see, according to your view anyone can chop off another persons head and say that he/she has done it for the love of prophet and I hope your type of thinking will find it totally ok.


Why would anyone want to chop someone's head for the love of the Prophet (pbuh)??? Are you feeling ok??  :roll:


Quote
Loving with sincerity and becoming obsessed with blind love  is totally different.


I wish I was obsessed with love for the Prophet (pbuh). I wish because of my love people would call me mad, metal or someone who has lost his head. I wish I was a "deewana" or "Aashiq" of the Prophet (pbuh) (Aashiq-e-Rasool):

"Say: 'If your fathers or your sons or your brothers or your wives or your tribe, or any wealth you have acquired, or any business you fear may slump, or any dwelling-places which please you, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and fighting hard in jihad in His Way, then wait until Allah brings about His command.'" (9:25)

Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "None of you will believe until I am more beloved to him than his children, his father and all people." (al-Bukhari, Muslim & an-Nasa'i)



Quote
there are people who are obsessively in love with their ego, money, children, popularity, leaders or even themselves. this type of love are blind and makes one person incapable of thinking properly. These type of people becomes problematic in the society.


Any obssessive love for a wordly thing or purpose more than the love of Allah (swt) and the Prophet (pbuh) and for striving in religion would be in vain and would result in disbelief. See quotes above.