Author Topic: Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari  (Read 18309 times)

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« on: April 10, 2004, 12:35:49 AM »
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.537


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 673:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/071.sbt.html#007.071.673

Andya Primanda

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2004, 12:46:12 AM »
Peace shamsul-arifin

Or better yet, I dare anyone prove its scientific validity by doing an actual experiment!

I have designed experimental methods to test this hadiths hypothesis.  Details are available upon request.
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Say: 'Travel through the earth and see how Allah initiate creation!'

shamsul-arefin

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2004, 01:14:10 AM »
Quote from: "Andya Primanda"
Peace shamsul-arifin

Or better yet, I dare anyone prove its scientific validity by doing an actual experiment!

I have designed experimental methods to test this hadiths hypothesis.  Details are available upon request.



There can be many interpretations on this hadith and many attempts to prove it right by extracting certain information?s and than mixing it with present scientific findings than give a most acceptable explanation.

But thats something goes off the topic as the hadith above is trying to say. I would like to know if the hadith is true than how is it meant to be practiced..?

peace

PrinceZ?D

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Re: How are these Hadith explained...??
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2004, 08:15:40 AM »
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.537


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 673:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/071.sbt.html#007.071.673


The Ahadith explain themselves, so I can't see hw anyone with eyes and bit of a brain can see an difficulties with the Hadith.

The reason is that the fly might have contaminated the drink with it's poisinous body fluids. However, within the body of the fly itself, there are chemicals that can neautralise these poisoneous fluids.

If you think about it... the body of the snake contains deadly venom, yet the snake remains alive. WHy is that. Because within its body there are chemicals that can neautralise the poison of the snake and therefore has no affect on the snake.

Therefore, if you dip the fly totally into the drink, you will neautral the drink if it got contaminated with some poisoneous chemicals.

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2004, 08:18:34 AM »
Quote from: "Andya Primanda"
Peace shamsul-arifin

Or better yet, I dare anyone prove its scientific validity by doing an actual experiment!

I have designed experimental methods to test this hadiths hypothesis.  Details are available upon request.



That would be great if someone could do that.

shamsul-arefin

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Re: How are these Hadith explained...??
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2004, 09:11:38 AM »
Quote from: "PrinceZ?D"
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.537


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 673:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/071.sbt.html#007.071.673


The Ahadith explain themselves, so I can't see hw anyone with eyes and bit of a brain can see an difficulties with the Hadith.

The reason is that the fly might have contaminated the drink with it's poisinous body fluids. However, within the body of the fly itself, there are chemicals that can neautralise these poisoneous fluids.

If you think about it... the body of the snake contains deadly venom, yet the snake remains alive. WHy is that. Because within its body there are chemicals that can neautralise the poison of the snake and therefore has no affect on the snake.

Therefore, if you dip the fly totally into the drink, you will neautral the drink if it got contaminated with some poisoneous chemicals.



dear zed,

             Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I was quite aware of your interpretation and I also thought of that even before posting it. So the literal practice of this is that if a Fly carrying malaria or any other disease falls on a glass of milk than we should dip the fly more in the milk.

So I think it would be better if we can get a Doctors opinion on this part as how practical is this hadith. I think we need to do some probable test on that technique of curing disease so that we can get a more clear understanding.

So anyone here of that skill who can verify this method..???

Peace

PrinceZ?D

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Re: How are these Hadith explained...??
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2004, 09:35:55 AM »
Quote from: "shamsul-arefin"
dear zed,

             Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I was quite aware of your interpretation and I also thought of that even before posting it. So the literal practice of this is that if a Fly carrying malaria or any other disease falls on a glass of milk than we should dip the fly more in the milk.

So I think it would be better if we can get a Doctors opinion on this part as how practical is this hadith. I think we need to do some probable test on that technique of curing disease so that we can get a more clear understanding.

So anyone here of that skill who can verify this method..???

Peace


*cough* *cough* .... first of all, I think the Hadith mentions "house fly"... you are referring to a mosquito. I don't think a mosquito would land in your tea or drink!! :lol:

Anyway, on the issue of a mosquito.... there is a higher chance of catching malaria from a mosquito if it stings you directly on your skin... the infection goes straight into the blood stream...

The "infection" of a house fly on the otherhand will not end up in your blood stream. First of all... you will have neautralised the infection by dipping it in the drink, this is done in two ways.. 1) within the body of the flie there is antidote to it's own poison.. 2) by dipping it.. you have diluted the infecteous chemicals in the drink and therefore their potency of the disease.

Tay

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2004, 10:00:47 AM »
Peace Zed,

Flies do not carry venom like a snake. They transmit bacteria and disease based on what they feed on: carcusses, rotting food, and open wounds. They transmit these bacteria to humans, although they do not transmit any "antidote". Marinating a fly in a drink will not "dilute" the effect of the contaminants, unless of course, you're drinking alcohol. If a fly lands on your food or in your drink, the best thing to do is throw it away.

They can carry and transmit: typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, pinworms, hookworms, and some tapeworms, all of which can infect the person by digesting the fly, whether "diluted" in a non-alcoholic drink or not.

Check out http://medent.usyd.edu.au/fact/nonbitingflies.htm for more info.

Here's a little clip:

Department of Medical Entomology
...Flies are equipped with special sensory cells on their antennae and feet which enable them to locate suitable food and egg laying sites. These sensory cells aid in detecting compounds such as ammonia, carbon dioxide and other strong compounds that are emitted from decomposing organic materials, such as carrion and faeces. The free interchange flies have with such sites ensures the flies are laden with bacteria on their mouthparts, body hairs and the sticky pads of their feet, as well as in their stomachs (where the bacteria rapidly multiply), faeces and vomitus. Contact with any foodstuffs, or feeding, which often involves vomiting and defecating, will contaminate food, preparation surfaces and utensils with potentially disease causing organisms. Eggs or young larvae may also be deposited if the substrate is deemed suitable for oviposition by the fly. Flies can be strongly attracted to uncovered, malodorous wounds, body openings, open sores or damaged skin...

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

PrinceZ?D

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2004, 10:13:53 AM »
Quote from: "Tay"
Flies do not carry venom like a snake.


I didn't say they did.  :roll:


Quote
They transmit bacteria and disease based on what they feed on: carcusses, rotting food, and open wounds. They transmit these bacteria to humans, although they do not transmit any "antidote". Marinating a fly in a drink will not "dilute" the effect of the contaminants, unless of course, you're drinking alcohol. If a fly lands on your food or in your drink, the best thing to do is throw it away.

They can carry and transmit: typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, pinworms, hookworms, and some tapeworms, all of which can infect the person by digesting the fly, whether "diluted" in a non-alcoholic drink or not.

Check out http://medent.usyd.edu.au/fact/nonbitingflies.htm for more info.

Here's a little clip:

Department of Medical Entomology
...Flies are equipped with special sensory cells on their antennae and feet which enable them to locate suitable food and egg laying sites. These sensory cells aid in detecting compounds such as ammonia, carbon dioxide and other strong compounds that are emitted from decomposing organic materials, such as carrion and faeces. The free interchange flies have with such sites ensures the flies are laden with bacteria on their mouthparts, body hairs and the sticky pads of their feet, as well as in their stomachs (where the bacteria rapidly multiply), faeces and vomitus. Contact with any foodstuffs, or feeding, which often involves vomiting and defecating, will contaminate food, preparation surfaces and utensils with potentially disease causing organisms. Eggs or young larvae may also be deposited if the substrate is deemed suitable for oviposition by the fly. Flies can be strongly attracted to uncovered, malodorous wounds, body openings, open sores or damaged skin...

Peace,
Tay



Yeh, thanks for the info dude.

Tay

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Debate -On the issue of "Dipping Fly" from Bukhari
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2004, 11:38:33 AM »
No problem, brother.

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]