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right hand

Started by AaRoN, February 17, 2004, 02:08:02 AM

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AaRoN

peace all

i remember prior to the forum moving to the new server there was some stuff about malakat aymanukum (etc) in some posts, and i was wondering if people could please contribute their thoughts on this topic and the meanings once again.

thanks :)
* the Divine suffices as observer - appreciation is the message of the Divine - and those who are with it are harsh on concealment and nurture between themselves *

Wakas

peace bro,

I pulled this off the old UBB forum. The following is a quote from the astute nehdia:

QuoteAs for the "those whom your right hand possess" translation of "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", it is a blatant mistranslation based on the Hadith and the literal translation is quite different. There is a linguistic analysis of this term elsewhere on this board, and I'm sure Anwar could help you too. I do have problems with certain verses in the Quran but this isn't one of them. I'm convinced that "Ma Malakat Aymanukum" is correctly translated as "those with whom you share a right handshake (an oath of responsibility)".


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

idolfree1

Peace be upon you,

This is a topic I want to have certain understanding about. I am beginnig to study it now in detail. I would also appreciate any more help that can be given.

idolfree1

Peace be upon you,

My journey begins by understanding that the word "Hands" is no where to be found.

Malakat, I think, relates to Malaika, and refers to control (this is where most translate "possess")

Does "aymanukun" mean right as in opposite to left, or right as in legal rights? Can someone help me with  this?

idolfree1

Peace be upon you,

Wow, as I go through the verses such as 4:3, 4:24, 4:25, and 30:28, it appears that ma malakat aymanukum is those of the people whom you are trying to make the message clear to.

Look at 4:25

(4:25) And who is not able, from you wealth/capability (means) that he marries the chaste, the believing (F), so from what your rights control from your youths (girls) the believers (F), and The  God (is) more knowing with your (P) faith/belief, some of you (are) from some, so marry them (F), with their families permission, and give them (F) their rewards/fees (dowries) with the kindness marrying, not fornicating/adulterating, and not taking (P/F) lovers/secret friends, so if they (F) married, so if they committed with an enormous deed/atrocious deed/adultery, so on them (F) half what (is) on the chaste/married (woman) from the torture, that (is) to who feared the exertion/corruption from you, and (to) be patient (is) better for you, and God (is) forgiving, merciful.

It becomes clear to me that the God is saying that we should seek first spouses who are believing and chaste, if we do not have the means to(money or just cant find one), then we should go to the people who our rights control, that is, people who are listening to us in regards to the message. Ones who have not completely understood but are receptive to learning.

zenje

Salaam idolfree and all,

All the best on your study/research for "Ma Malakat Aymanukum".

Please consider these verses whenever you get to them. :wink:

[23:5]   And they cover their private parts.

[23:6]   Except around their mates, or those who are their dependants, they are free from blame.


Coz for the life of me, I can't tell what that means!

Peace!
If they turn away, then Say: "God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne." [9:129]

idolfree1

Peace be upon you Zenje,

Yes, this is tough subject.

Quote[23:5] And they cover their private parts.

[23:6] Except around their mates, or those who are their dependants, they are free from blame.


(23:6) Except on their spouses or what their rights control, so they truly are not blameworthy/blamed.

Dependents? Perhaps thats not too differnt from what I was saying , regarding one who "depends" on your instruction/help. WHEW! I am really at a loss right now  :D  I'll  be back when I get a better understanding.

idolfree1

Peace be upon you,

I notice that we are given a list of people we are prohibited from marrying, and it includes those who are already married EXCEPT

(4:24) And the married from the women except what your rights control...

(Thinking outloud) I am getting the idea that the marriage of the disbelievers is not respected by the God.  How else can I get a logical understanding from this verse? Suppose there was a married woman who was married to , lets say, a man from the Taliban.  She liked my understanding of the system(deen) because it made sense and was clearly stated in the reading. She began writing to me and asking me questions, and the answers I gave her she really enjoyed and longed to have a mate that believed in this manner. Would she be considered what my right controlled, assuming that I am not also married? Verse 4:24, I think, clearly states there is some group  of married women who are permissible to marry. What kind of a marriage would not be respected?

Sakena

Peace to everyone

I also have been struggling to understand who the people of the Right Hand are.  

It seems to me that God made sure we would understand it.  Here is what I found.



Quote90.10 And We guided him (to) the two paths/good or bad ?
          90.11 So he did not rush/force (himself) into the high mountain
          path/road ?
          90.12 And what made you know/informed you what the high
          mountain path/road (is) ?
          90.13 Releasing/freeing a neck/person/slave.
          90.14 Or feeding in a day/time of hunger/starvation/famine.
          90.15 An orphan of a relation/near/close.
          90.16 Or a poorest of poor/poor oppressed of poverty.
          90.17 Then he was from those who believed and
          directed/commanded each other with the patience, and
          directed/commanded each other with the mercy/compassion .
          90.18 Those are the blessings'/right's (side's/hand's)
          owners/friends/company.
         


Everyone talks about 23.5-6 and it seems people are confusing some issues perhaps.  Just because we are allowed to show our privates to our  spouses and what the right hand posseses doesnt mean that they are of the opposite sex.  In fact, that would not make sense given light of many other verses in the Quran regarding modesty and chastity and avoiding fornication.

Could it be perphaps a different way?  I pose the following scenario.

A women is married, and her husband is a land owner.  Maybe a farmer.  He hires on staff to help till the fields for crop production.  They receive room and board for his family in a guest house area, and a small wage to save for himself.  Now, the women may help the wife with the chores such as cooking and cleaning and laundry (not trying to be sexist, just giving an example scenario LOL).  So now the wife has "hand maidens".  Its very likely that these women may help the wife with her bathing, or dressing (this is quite common even today) and would then see her privates in a non-sexual yet modest way.

Likewise the men may have male staff that fetch the water for his bath etc.  It does not mean, that male servents see women naked, nor does it mean women servents see the men naked.  God did NOT say your female Right hand people.  He just said what your Right Hand posses that includes BOTH male and female.  

I think too often we get so wrapped up in our own sex, that we forget that there is another sex also.  We automatically assume that it must mean a female Right Hand as opposed to a male Right Hand and we end up struggling to make sense of it.

Women are also allowed to marry of what their Right Hand posses, it was not just for men.  There is balance.  It seems to me the most modest way, would be as in the example scenario I gave above.

Given the verse about marrying them off...I too would have to agree with the person who wrote that it seems you would marry them off as to avoid poverty for yourself.  Maybe if you could no longer afford staff?  Your business was going under so you need to cut employees, and you could no longer afford to feed them all.  They are of marrying age, so you would do what Allah has said is BEST and that is free them for marriage to another.  It doesnt mean to take them for yourself.

As we see in 4.129, men are not able to be just or fair between two wives.  Obviously you arent going to be able to take on more than one women even if one is an orphan.  It seems the Best explanation is to free them to marry to the person of their choice.

If you put it into this context, all the other verses seem to make quite alot of good sense.

You are allowed to marry an orphan if you cannot find a suitable believing mate for yourself.  And you are to give them that which you would give to a believing women to make things fair.  Still just one.

I dunno just putting it out there for response.  After reading 90.10-18 it just seemed to fall into place.

Jaxal

Your business was going under so you need to cut employees, and you could no longer afford to feed them all. They are of marrying age, so you would do what Allah has said is BEST and that is free them for marriage to another. It doesnt mean to take them for yourself.

I bet that is a heartbreaker for the Oil-Rich sheikhs.. LOOOOOOOOLL ... not only for sheikhs.. but for sunnis too... becoz now they dont have an excuse to marry another woman... an excuse such as..

[] Ohh... she needs a place to live.. ohh she needs food.. and bla bla...

That is the most common reason i have heard from sunnis when they are asked to give reasons to marry a second wife...
She Made Me See The World In A Grain Of Sand.
When The Only Choice You Have Left Is The Wrong One, It'S Not A Choice Anymore... It's Fate.