Author Topic: 2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer  (Read 27567 times)

idolfree1

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2004, 03:08:13 PM »
Peace be upon you Wakas,

Quote
The word thaheerati has been mistakingly translated as "noon" by some translators.


Thank you for the clarification  :D

Wakas

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2004, 03:55:50 PM »
peace tajmaha,

Whilst I agree 'middle' is one possible meaning of the root. I feel its not applicable in 2:238-239. IF one inserts 'middle' into this verse, it becomes illogical, as I demonstrated.
Please provide a translation of 2:238-239 with 'middle' or even 'joining' in it (remaining true to the Arabic) and we can see if it makes sense...


peace marie,

I have also read that 'al' before a noun makes it general, cant remember where though. I'm not good with grammar.


peace Kyle,

It was originally Ayman's observation, although his understanding is different from mine.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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idolfree1

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2004, 07:44:10 AM »
Peace be upon you,

Have we all agreed that Wusta carries the basic meaning of balanced and therefore does not mean there is a "middle" salaat somewhere? Is this discussion over?

Wakas

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2004, 01:22:10 PM »
peace Kyle,

Quote
Have we all agreed that Wusta carries the basic meaning of balanced and therefore does not mean there is a "middle" salaat somewhere?


I'm not sure about all. But for me, the answer is 'yes', there is not a "middle" salat from 2:238.

I only have one question left: why does it say 'three private times', when I see it as one time-range (after dusk salat to before dawn salat) and times of changing clothes from openess/visibility? The wording implies to me its not really a range. What do others think?

 
Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

idolfree1

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2004, 06:44:49 AM »
Peace be upon you,

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I only have one question left: why does it say 'three private times', when I see it as one time-range (after dusk salat to before dawn salat) and times of changing clothes from openess/visibility? The wording implies to me its not really a range. What do others think?


That is a good question that I never thought about. Right now, I just assume that the starting period being taken is when one wakes up from sleep, then we can justify the number three.

ayman

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2004, 08:14:06 AM »
Peace brothers Wakas and Kyle,

Quote from: "Wakas"
why does it say 'three private times', when I see it as one time-range (after dusk salat to before dawn salat) and times of changing clothes from openess/visibility? The wording implies to me its not really a range. What do others think?


How many times do people naturally change clothes per day? TWICE. Once in the morning and another time in the evening.

Those TWO times plus the ONE time period between the night learning connection and the daybreak learning connection, make THREE.

I hope this helps.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman.

Wakas

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2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2004, 01:26:37 PM »
peace Ayman,

Quote
How many times do people naturally change clothes per day? TWICE. Once in the morning and another time in the evening.


Nice.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: 2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2009, 05:05:35 PM »
I thought I'd post my current understanding as this topic seems to be discussed often.

Background:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
(and associated links in the above two articles)


Observe/guard on the bonds/affirmations, and the most excellent/balanced bond/affirmation and stand to God humbly dutiful/obedient/devout. [2:238]
So/but if you are in danger/fear, so walking or riding, so if you became safe/secure, so mention/remember God, as He taught you what you were not knowing. [2:239]

"salawat" is the plural of "salat", and simply means "bonds/affirmations". It is used in chapter 9 also for "oath/bond", and seems to have a formalised oral expression connotation (e.g. this can be seen from its Classical Arabic meanings: petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy). So that is why it is mentioned in context to marriage vows/promises/bonds etc.

Of course, when one asks any believer, what is the most excellent/balanced bond? They will not hesitate, and say to God / God's system. 2:238 is giving a message of whilst one guards/observes the bonds, also bear in mind to guard/observe the most excellent bond and stand to God dutiful/obedient in this. All the previous verses/signs are about one's duty to God's commands. Thus, what is inseparable from this, is to remember and understand such commands, as laid out in The Quran, as God teaches us what we were not knowing. So there is a two-fold reason for bringing this into the context.
The use of "stand" implies stationary, i.e. in one place. It can also be used metaphorically to mean "stand firm or persist".

Hence, it then follows on with 2:239, referring to guarding/observing of the most excellent bond/affirmation/salat by way of the regular/timed salat/bond (which is also a duty/command), and this can be done on the move if in a state of fear/threat/danger. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know. Note use of word "taught". God teaches us by His guidance, and in this context it is revelation, The Quran, which links back perfectly to the prior context.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

herbman

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Re: 2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2009, 05:39:57 AM »
Salam to all,

about Salat AL WUSTA what do you think about this verse "salat yaumu jumu'a"62:9

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نُودِيَ لِلصَّلَاةِ مِنْ يَوْمِ الْجُمُعَةِ فَاسْعَوْا إِلَىٰ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَذَرُوا الْبَيْعَ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

Yusuf Ali : O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): that is best for you if ye but knew!

This can only be during the day, not al fajr neither at sun down it has to be somewhere in the middle.


Allah best knows

Wakas

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Re: 2:238 - evidence FOR/AGAINST a 'middle' prayer
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 05:55:06 AM »
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org