someone giving a piece of his mind on the jinn issue ;)

[Jaxal]

SaLaM TheNabi...

Bro... God can do WHATEVER he wants... God says 'Happen' .. and it happens... and mary DID give a virgin birth.. loooolll... Bro.. we are talking about GOD... there is nothing in this whole universe he cant do... he can turn an ant into an elephant... and vice versa...

And also.. God says.. there will be things that human will never understand.. for example time... God actually mocks us when talking about 'Time' ... i dont have the verse with me.. but if u want to see it.. i will give it to you  

[TheNabi]

Peace Jaxal

Bro... God can do WHATEVER he wants... God says 'Happen' .. and it happens... and mary DID give a virgin birth.. loooolll... Bro.. we are talking about GOD... there is nothing in this whole universe he cant do... he can turn an ant into an elephant... and vice versa...

God does not contradict Itself.  :wink:  God has set up natural laws for our universe and it is by these laws that all things operate. God said that It perfected creation, contradiction is not a perfection but a flaw as far as I am aware.

And also.. God says.. there will be things that human will never understand.. for example time... God actually mocks us when talking about 'Time' ... i dont have the verse with me.. but if u want to see it.. i will give it to you  

As far as I know time is relative to God and relative to different areas. We've adopted a system of time that revolves around earths rotations, etc.  :wink: Thus whereas a day on Earth for us would be considered 24 hours, a day on Mercury would be 8 hours or so. We will never know all things, but God would not give us things we could not know, or things that are a contradiction to the universal laws.

Joe

[zizo]

1. God said verify everything. (the verse means literaly: don't follow what you have no knowledge thereof)

2. God says that the Quran is the truth

3. If it was not from God you would have found a lot of differences in it

4. To verify that truth, you are challenged to create a sura like it

5. No contradictions in it & no sura like it => Quran=truth

6. Quran says it turned into a snake => it turned into a snake

7. The sorcerers did not turn their staffs and ropes into real snakes, because the quran says "khoyella lahom" meaning that they were made to believe or imagine.

8. This is not said about Moses, so it wasn't just imagination

Anything wrong with that reasoning?

[Jaxal]

SaLaM zizo...

So bro... ur on my side.... right? LOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL... Bro Nabi... i wasnt talking about the time difference between mercury and mars... im talking... ok let me give u an example...

I used to talk to her for hours... 6 hours straight.. sometimes even 7... but when 7 hours had gone by.. to me.. it would seem.. damnn.. so soon??? then.. one day.. my connection was messed up.. and i couldnt online.. and im sitting there.. eyes wide open.. i was WISHING i would go to sleep becoz i couldnt... and i would look at the clock and only 5 mins would have passed..

Thats what im talking about... i hope u understand what i mean..

[Sakena]

Peace to all,

For those of you who question that time is what we "think" it is here on earth, let me show you with this:

[2.259]Or the one who passed through a town, where all its inhabitants had passed away. He said: ?How can God possibly resurrect this after its death?? So God put him to death for one hundred calendar years, then He resurrected him. He said: ?How long have you stayed here?? He said: ?I have stayed here a day or part of a day.? He said: ?No, you have stayed here for one hundred calendar years! Look at your food and drink, they have not changed, but look at your mule; and We will make you a sign for the people; and look at the bones how We grow them, then We cover them with flesh.? So when it was clear to him what happened, he said: ?I now know that God is capable of all things!?

Clearly God is telling us, that time is not as we "think" it is.  We only perceive that the day is 24 hours.  When we sleep at night, how do we know that 100 calendar years haven't passed?  The answer is, we don't.

[23.109]There was a group from among My servants who used to say: ?Our Lord, we have believed, so forgive us, and have mercy upon us, for You are the best of those who show mercy.?
[23.110]But you mocked them, so much so that they made you forget My remembrance, and you used to laugh at them.
[23.111]I have rewarded them today for their patience, they are indeed the winners.
[23.112]Say: ?How long have you stayed on earth in terms of years??
[23.113]They said: ?We remained for a day, or for part of a day. So ask those who kept count.?
[23.114]He said: ?You have remained for very little, if you knew.?

[30.50]So look at the effects of God?s mercy, how He revives the land after its death. Such is the One who will revive the dead, and He is capable of all things.
[30.51]And if We chose to send a wind and they see it turn yellow, then they will continue to be rejecters after it.
[30.52]You cannot make the dead listen, nor can you make the deaf hear the call when they have turned their backs.
[30.53]Nor can you enlighten the blind from their straying; but you can only make those who believe in Our revelations listen, for they have surrendered.
[30.54]God is the One Who created you from weakness, then He made strength after the weakness, then He makes after the strength a weakness and grey hair. He creates what He wills and He is the Knowledgeable, the Able.
[30.55]And the Day the Hour is established, the criminals will swear that they have remained only for an hour! Thus they were deluded.
[30.56]And those who were given knowledge and faith said: ?You have remained according to God?s decree until the Day of Resurrection; so this is the Day of Resurrection, but you did not know.?

This one also shows that what you think of the laws of physics or anything else, may not be exactly what it appears to be.  God can change a wind to yellow if desired.  Surely you will try to find an appropriate scientific reason, but not all things have a reason that we can see.  Seen vs Unseen.  While I do not dispute that God has given us the ability to seek knowledge and the truth and apply that to increase our understanding, there is much left to be known as thus it is we will die the human death on this earth still contemplating that which was unseen imho.

So before anyone decides to say that God cannot or would not turn a staff into a snake, I would reconsider the evidence further in the Quran regarding what we "think" appears to be possible and what does not.

God's peace and blessings be upon us all,

Sakena

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you all,

Brothers and sisters, have any of you seen sticks turn to snakes? Has anyone you have known seen such an event? How about a man turn into an ape or how about a woman giving birth without the seed of a man. No, of course you have not experienced any of these things or now of anyone who has. None of you have. Why is that? Because these are against the LAWS OF THE GOD. You see, the problem is that no one is doubting the God's power, we all know that anything is possible from the God, but the God has created all things according to the LAW and that is how things are carried out. We experience this all day, everyday. You want Ice, you put water in the freezer, you want to walk, you put one foot in front of the other, etc. If things were not based on LAWS, we would be in confused states, because things that worked one day would not work the next, so we would be always lost. The God however decreed upon himself MERCY. MErcy is not the forgiving of broken laws, MERCY is making all things BASED on LAWS so we can find our way to the HIEGHTS.

Now with that said, we are not to go after that which we have no knowledge of, does anyone have knowledge of sticks turning to snakes? When I throw a stick it remains a stick, isn't that contradictory to the story of a stick turning to a snake literally? Let me be clear, ALL MIRACLES taken literally contradict life itself, the metaphorical messages of these "events" however carry meanings that can be verified in everyones life. Please stop and think about this. I gurantee you that the reading(quran) will be so much more powerful to you when you start to undwerstand the lessons and stop focusing on the "magic".

[Sakena]

Peace to all,

Thank you for your comments Idolfree1.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions as we all are.  However, I don't think that God is dicussing "magic" in the sense that we have been taught to understand it.

All things are possible with God.  All things.  Period.  The Quran states this over and over again.

It also states that our view of this world is an illusion.  We think we know what is going on, but there is much we do not see and are not meant to, unless God wills it to be otherwise.

God tells us many times in the Quran to ponder all possibilities, then accept the BEST explanation.

I think the BEST explanation here is that God has power over all things, seen and unseen, including science, time, astronomy and countless other "things" that exist here on earth.  

I think its a bit strong to state that just because we have not seen a stick turn into a snake, that its not possible.  Faith, is part of the scenario.  Trusting God has power over ALL things is part of that.  I haven't seen God either, but I can see God's power of creation all around me.

I will not stunt my growth and understanding, because I put one foot in front of the other.  Many do not have this ability in this world, are born that way or due to an accident cannot walk.  So things are not always what they appear to be.  Their view of this world is very different.  As it is with those that do not have the ability to speak, or cannot see due to whatever reasons.  Their reality is based on things you and I could maybe never understand unless we experience the inability not to hear or see.  I personally believe a person who is physically blind, would have senses that would counter those that they are lacking and develop beyond what we would consider "human possibility" such as a sense of smell or taste higher than yours or mine.  Again this relates to what we "think" we see, and hear and taste all part of the illusions.  These things can distract us from the true purpose and that is glorification of God, seeking truth and widsom that God willingly decides to bestow upon whom He chooses in all areas of life.  I don't call that "magic".  

That of course is just my opinion.  

God's peace and blessings upon us all,

Sakena

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Sakeena,

Please understand that I respect your opinion as well as everyone else's, but the purpose of studying the reading(quran) is to gain clarity. The God says he based this Book on knowledge? Knowledge of what? How can ine even attain this thing called "Knowledge" if there are no laws to build on? How can one have faith in anything UNTIL they see the same thingh happening over and over and over again? The readingis for rememerance, how does one remember something other than by reading it over and over and over again? Do you see what the God's message is getting at? If there are no laws, how deos one know what to sow so they can reap benefit? Does gravity ever stop working on earth?

What I need you to understand is that I am not saying that the God cannot do whatever He wants. I hope that is never repeated because we all know that the God created everything from nothing. What I am saying is that the God has made laws and built creation according to those laws, and it is theses laws (sometimes incorrectky calkled commandments) that the God continues to send announcers and messengers to point us to. He did not send them to us to tell us about a stick that turns into a snake, he sent them to tell us that Truth destroys falsehood. Do you realize that a stick actually is moving? when you look at anything under a microscope you will find it vibrates. These are things people can verify all throughout time. We cannot verify that sticks turn into snakes. And that being the case, to believe they do is to go against the intelligence and reason that the God says we are responsible for.

[Sakena]

Peace to all,

Thank you again Idolfree1 for your comments.

I am entirely understanding what you are saying.   Everyone has an individual path with God should they choose to except that.

As far as things vibrating yes I am aware of that.  However, maybe another way to point out what im trying to get across by using your terms would be to ask the question...

Glass is a liquid are you aware of that also?  It is in constant movement, yet it appears as a solid.  Anyone can go to see stained glass and see that over a period of years, that it becomes very thin on top and very thick on the bottom, thats because its flowing and is in constant motion.  Just like God's laws.

There are more laws in place in this universe, earth, creation then just the "commandments".  Those are laws for the people to adhere to and uphold for the Glory of God, when dealing with each other in a righteous way.

But there are unmistakable other laws, such as you stated, like gravity etc.  And as far as gravity stopping, I would urge you to check the Quran because God does in fact state that there will be a day where the earth will stand still based on my current understanding

We are both entitled to see what God has given us to see.  Each of us will come to understanding as God wills.  And I want you to know I am appreciative of the way you present your points.  But it is up to each of us to ask God for guidance and believe that which we see as truth.  So if someone believes when God says a stick turned to a snake to make a point upon another point, i dont think its without validity.  Just maybe not for yourself.  Potato Potato LOL.

I am continually amazed at the depth of understanding people have and therein is more proof of the wisdom God bestows upon the believers, that we all have something to bring to each other for enlightenment.

God's blessings and peace be upon us all,

Sakena

[Jaxal]

SaLaM...

Brothers and sisters, have any of you seen sticks turn to snakes? Has anyone you have known seen such an event? How about a man turn into an ape or how about a woman giving birth without the seed of a man. No, of course you have not experienced any of these things or now of anyone who has. None of you have. Why is that? Because these are against the LAWS OF THE GOD.

How about this...

Brothers and sisters, have any of u seen God? have any of u seen Prophet Muhammad being taken on the heavens? No? OMG... TRAUMA... so wait a min... Quran tells us that there is a God.. Quran also says that Miraj happened... but i dont think none of that has been proven scientifically.. ohhhh ok... those events didnt happen... bcoz surely they go TOTALLY AGAINST the ''LAWS OF THE GOD''

How about this idolfree1... maybe God doesnt need ur beliefe in all them and neither does he needs to prove to you that al these things happenes...