someone giving a piece of his mind on the jinn issue ;)

[AaRoN]

peace all

i am gonna quote this from another forum. i've made contact with the author but as yet he is unable to get access to this forum.

enjoyez vous!

Hello Brothers,
My name is Zeljko and as of today I am a new member of 39:18.
I would like to share some info I have interpreted from the Qur'an. I would love to get some of your thoughts on my theory.

Here is a quick interpretation of the concepts of Satan and the nature of Sin and Satan in the Qur'an.


First I would like to define who or what Satan is using the Qur'an. God says in the Qur'an that Satan is a part of his creation that was created before man. The Qur'an also states that Satan was made from fire free from smoke unlike humans who were created from clay. This would mean that Satan is a Jinn because the Qur'an states that the Jinn were also created from the Fire free from smoke. Now we come to a very interesting point, "What are the Jinn?". Well, by reading the Qur'an, the Jinn seem to be a creation that inhabited this earth before and inhabit the earth today with humans. There is one Specific verse in the Qur'an that identifies what a jinn is. In verse 27:10 the Qur'an revisits the Story of Moses and in particular the story of when he threw his Rod to the ground. We all know the story of the Rod being thrown down and changing into a snake, this story is repeated a few times in the Qur'an but, in verse 27:10 the snake is called something different for the first time. In this verse God describes the Rod as "Jinn like". Therefore, the only plausible explanation for the Jinn is that they are some type of reptilian creation thus, Satan is also part of this reptilian creation.

It is interesting to note that before humanity arrived on the scene, the earth was inhabited for millions of years primarily with Reptiles. With this information we can understand the Verses in the Qur'an in which God speaks of creating the human race.

The following excerpt is for the Qur'an speaking of the creation of humans and the position of Satan concerning the new creation.

[7:10] We have established you on earth, and we have provided for you the means of support therein. Rarely are you appreciative.

[7:11] We created you, then we shaped you, then we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Iblees (Satan); he was not with the prostrators.

[7:12] He said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?" He said, "I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from mud."

[7:13] He said, "Therefore, you must go down, for you are not to be arrogant here. Get out; you are debased."

[7:14] He said, "Grant me a respite, until the Day of Resurrection."

[7:15] He said, "You are granted a respite."

[7:16] He said, "Since You have willed that I go astray, I will skulk for them on Your straight path.

[7:17] "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."

[7:18] He said, "Get out therefrom, despised and defeated. Those among them who follow you, I will fill Hell with you all.

[7:19] "As for you, Adam, dwell with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom as you please, but do not approach this one tree, lest you fall in sin."

[7:20] The devil whispered to them, in order to reveal their bodies, which were invisible to them. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you from this tree, except to prevent you from becoming angels, and from attaining eternal existence."

[7:21] He swore to them, "I am giving you good advice."

[7:22] He thus duped them with lies. As soon as they tasted the tree, their bodies became visible to them, and they tried to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise. Their Lord called upon them: "Did I not enjoin you from that tree, and warn you that the devil is your most ardent enemy?"

[7:23] They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged our souls, and unless You forgive us and have mercy on us, we will be losers."

[7:24] He said, "Go down as enemies of one another. On earth shall be your habitation and provision for awhile."

[7:25] He said, "On it you will live, on it you will die, and from it you will be brought out."

After reading the above allegory we come to a fascinating conclusion. This fascinating conclusion inculcates who and what Satan is. If you look at verse 11 in Surah 7 you will notice that God tells Iblis to bow down and submit to His new creation the Human. Satan refused because of his arrogance and prejudice towards the way we were created (clay). Then in verse 12 God tell Satan that he is not to be Arrogant and casts him to a lower position. Satan in return asks God if he can be given respite until humans are raised for the day of resurrection. God grants Satan respite with humans till the day of resurrection.

The question is, "how can Satan be granted respite with humans till the day of resurrection in which he is able to whisper to, and influence humans to stray from the path of God?


Well, knowing that Satan was part of Gods creation before the creation of humans and knowing Satan to be part of the reptilian creation that existed on earth prior the creation of humans, we can understand Surah 7 verse 11 more clearly in which God tells Satan to bow down to the new human creation. Thus, God is telling the reptilian creation to submit to the new highly evolved human creation. But, the reptilian creation does not want to submit to the new creation. How is this possible?

Today science tells us that humans have a triune brain and that this triune brain consists of 3 parts. The lowest part is called the R-complex or reptilian brain that carried over from evolutionary stages from when the Earth was occupied by reptiles. The R-Complex's main objectives are Self-centeredness, Self-Preeminence, and Self-procreationist. Is this what God told to bow down to human creation? Is this Satan? It seems to be so, since, the reptilian brain does try to influence the other two parts of the brain with suggestions that are contrary to their nature. The other two parts are called the paleo mammalilion (Limbic system) which regulates certain emotional processes in the human and the other is called the Neo mammalian (Neo Cortex) which seems to be unique in humans. The Neo Cortex is split into two parts the Right and Left. Each has it's own unique functions.

Left Hemisphere
(Predominantly 3-patterned)

Math:
Associative
Commutative
Distributive

Logic:
Major Premise
Minor Premise
Conclusion

Time Sequencing:
Seconds~ Minutes~ Hours
Past~ Present~ Future
Day~ Week~ Month

Language:
Subject
Object
Verb

Right Body Side:
Tri-cuspid heart valve
Three-lobed lung Right Hemisphere
(Predominantly 2-patterned)

Holistic:
Macro versus Micro
Whole versus Part
Inner versus Outer

Music:
Major Scale vs Minor Scale
Loud versus Soft (Quiet)
Consonance vs Dissonance

Visuospatial: (Art)
Background vs Foreground
Light vs Dark (Contrasts)
1 Dimension vs 2 Dimensions

Emotions:
Pain versus Pleasure
Positive vs Negative
Love versus Hate

Left Body Side:
Bi-cuspid heart valve
Two-lobed lung



There are a lot of theories that view the R-complex as being the Main motivator in instigating criminal behavior in humans.
Check out this website.

http://cenocracy.topcities.com/cro7b.html





Side view of human brain showing reptilian brain in green.

Front sectioned view of human brain.
--- Brain part II ---

Front view of reptile known as the cobra snake.





Therefore, humanities goal is to overcome their base desires (Satan )and live up to their higher calling using the gifts of reason and compassion. (The other two parts of the Triune Brain)

God also does declare in the Qur'an that all humans have accepted this test before being born on this planet.

[7:171] We raised the mountain above them like an umbrella, and they thought it was going to fall on them: "You shall uphold what we have given you, strongly, and remember the contents thereof, that you may be saved."

[7:172] Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."

[7:173] Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"

[7:174] We thus explain the revelations, to enable the people to redeem themselves.

33:72] We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
[33:73] For GOD will inevitably punish the hypocrite men and the hypocrite women, and the idol worshipping men and the idol worshipping women. GOD redeems the believing men and the believing women. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


40:11] They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice, and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"

Thus, the reality is, each individual accepted the challenge to overcome the suggestions of Satan (Base desires- reptilaian desires).

the author can be reached at zc6778@msn.com for any comments you may wish to make to him. other than that, feel free to discuss it here

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you,

Brother Zeljko, excellent observations. Thank you for pointing me to your post. Yes, it looks like we are heading to the same conclusions (for those not following, please see my post in salaat section entitled "The Human and the process of rememberance").

I was only aware of the two parts of the brain, right and left. This reptilian brain I had heard of before but I never followed it up with study. This fits very nicely, but I need to ponder over it greatly of course.

What is also interesting is the fact that when you break everything down, past nuetron , proton, and electron, all we have is energy. If I recall  correctly, energy (or perhaps it is electricity, sorry for the unverified info) moves in a snake like pattern.

I intend to have more to say on this very interesting topic soon, I would like to really take it in and think hard on it first. Thank you again for pointing this out.

Peace,
Kyle

[Jaxal]

Both Jinn and Magic exist.. Quran Tells us about them... when i used to go to Pakistan for my holidays... [ when i was 10-11 ] my grandma would tell me all these stories on how she saw Jinns.. and all that stuff... she told me about this well from which she heard voices... yea someway of putting a child to sleep... LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL ... but the good thing was that i learnt never to go near wells...

Magic... welll ... ever heard of voodoo? its black magic... and its also haram... also from the quran... we see that God telling us that magic actually exist... also .. magic goes back to the time of the pharos [ correct me if i am wrong ] ...if u read about Prophet Ibraheem.. and his stick... which turned to snake... so we know from the Quran that magic exist... and so do Jinns.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you,

Do you think the God asks us to believe that  a stick turned into a snake literally? When we have no way of ever verifying that? Yet the God tells us to verify everything and not follow blindly?

[Jaxal]

Salam idolfree1...

When sunnis follow hadeeths that contradict the Quran.. then THAT is called following blindly... becoz all they have is the word Buhahahari... and the other 3... Quran doesnt mentions anything about not to bath in hot bath [ this hadeeth is from Buhahari... if u want to see it.. i will give it to you.. ] ... so when some1 says that yea we shouldnt take a hot bath becoz the hadeeth tells us to do so.. then THAT is called following blindly...

BUT.. Quran is the word of God... and i trust each and every verse in the Quran ... becoz it is the word of God.. now.. if i cant trust the word of God.. whose words can i trust???

Do you think the God asks us to believe that a stick turned into a snake literally? When we have no way of ever verifying that? Yet the God tells us to verify everything and not follow blindly?

As for that... here is the verse... plz read this whole surah... the verse is:[/color]

[7:107]
He threw down his staff, and it turned into a tremendous serpent.

Read from verse 3 .. and u will get the whole picture... as u can see... God has clearly told us here that Moses threw down his staff.. and it turned into a snake... i dont think God could have been any more clearer   ...

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Jaxal,

I am not trying to start any argument with you, just trying to reason. So I ask you, when you read that a stick turned into a snake, do you realize that the God told us to verify all info? How did you verify that information of the stick turning into a snake? If you did not verify it, then it is blind following. This is not a name I am calling you, it is only a description based on your proceedure.

[Jaxal]

SaLaM idolfree1...

God tells me in that verse... Moses threw down his stick.. and it turned into a snake... GOD SAID THAT.. now y would i need to varify it? i will believe what God told me... and if you are saying that i need to verify that verse... then u literally telling me to verify EACH AND EVERY verse in the Quran.. Hmm  :?

[TheNabi]

Peace

I think the staff Moses carried symbolized truth. Thus Moses was wielding the truth and when the truth is thrown out at those who reject, it is like a frightening snake that is a threat and eats up their illusions/conjecture. The snake swallowing the falsehood (7:117) brings to mind the verse where it is said the truth will smash the brains of falsehood (see 17:81).  :wink:

21:18 No, We cast with the truth upon the falsehood, so it disrupts it, and then it retreats. And woe to you for what you have described.

Joe

[Jaxal]

SaLaM TheNabi...

Bro... no it wasnt being used as a metophore.. that is what happened... pharose had his team of magicians... and God has moses with his stick.. and God told Moses to throw his stick down.. when he did that.. it turned into a snake.. thats what happened becoz God said so...

[TheNabi]

Peace Jaxal

There are numerous examples in the quran to help us grasp it's concepts. One can never verify a staff turning into a snake because this is not the way God has made it.  :wink: One can never verify a women giving a virgin birth, this is not possible except in myth. When it is said to the COI to be apes, do they turn to apes? What about the man Moses met to learn wisdom? How do you explain these things?

Take care.

Joe